microscopy
Moderators: Stardust@home Team, DustMods
microscopy
I am convinced that the team are not handy with microscopes. Movie No 2311928V1 has a particle in a trough below the main surface and it comes into focus above the surface upon which it rests. It is these inconsistencies that I find so frustrating and the reason that I quit last year.
Hi doc.
Being a calibration movie, I can't see 2311928V1 and can't reply on that.
But if I had to give you a piece of advice - and I know you didn't asked me for it!
- I would suggest to focus on real movies.
I consider CMs as a way to learn and to keep everyone's skills awake, but I'm not really into the scoring race. Being in the top 100 list or being #20,000 is not very important, since everyone has the same chances to find a real track. And that is what we are doing here, that's the purpose of the research. I'm not really interested in being the number 1, but I do want to find a track.
I made a lot of mistakes myself, my incorrect answers are well over 250 and I'm still glad to contribute. Although I must admit CMs are sometimes frustrating, after all... who cares? Let's work to find some tracks!
Hope you don't let yourself be discouraged by any calibration movie
Bye
b
Being a calibration movie, I can't see 2311928V1 and can't reply on that.
But if I had to give you a piece of advice - and I know you didn't asked me for it!
- I would suggest to focus on real movies.I consider CMs as a way to learn and to keep everyone's skills awake, but I'm not really into the scoring race. Being in the top 100 list or being #20,000 is not very important, since everyone has the same chances to find a real track. And that is what we are doing here, that's the purpose of the research. I'm not really interested in being the number 1, but I do want to find a track.
I made a lot of mistakes myself, my incorrect answers are well over 250 and I'm still glad to contribute. Although I must admit CMs are sometimes frustrating, after all... who cares?
Let's work to find some tracks!Hope you don't let yourself be discouraged by any calibration movie
Bye
b
Doc,
It is very frustrating when the surfaces aren't where they should be. One thing to know is that the scanning was done automatically. This quote was under the About section:
"To find the elusive particles we are using an automated scanning microscope to automatically collect images of the entire Stardust interstellar collector at the Curatorial Facility at Johnson Space Center in Houston. We call these stacks of images focus movies."
You can read that here. If a person filmed them, they might as well do it themselves, and we know how long that would take, especially when they wouldn't get the verification we could give.
This is the movie I think you were looking at and at the coords 336,103 or so. Is that correct? If so, I'm not sure I would say that was a trough.
I agree with bebop. For all the ones that we have to click on "Bad focus" because the surface isn't at the right spot or it doesn't look right, there are many more that we can and are successful with. Thanks for coming back with us and good luck!
It is very frustrating when the surfaces aren't where they should be. One thing to know is that the scanning was done automatically. This quote was under the About section:
"To find the elusive particles we are using an automated scanning microscope to automatically collect images of the entire Stardust interstellar collector at the Curatorial Facility at Johnson Space Center in Houston. We call these stacks of images focus movies."
You can read that here. If a person filmed them, they might as well do it themselves, and we know how long that would take, especially when they wouldn't get the verification we could give.
This is the movie I think you were looking at and at the coords 336,103 or so. Is that correct? If so, I'm not sure I would say that was a trough.
I agree with bebop. For all the ones that we have to click on "Bad focus" because the surface isn't at the right spot or it doesn't look right, there are many more that we can and are successful with. Thanks for coming back with us and good luck!
From dust we come
I agree with Nikita: 2311928V1 seems to be yet another badly computer-inserted experimental or putative track. 
One would have hoped nonetheless that someone on the team with adequate microscope experience, as doc says, would have been responsible (and should be held accountable) for releasing such CMs.
To bebop: Nikita and I are able to post the CM concerned because it was never true that this was impossible (though they wanted you to think so!) - see here and here.
While annoying, I do retain trust in the team regarding their primary scientific efforts. I just wish that, having set up this pioneering distributed project (but perhaps bitten off more than they expected to chew!), they could spend just a little more care with the CMs and more effort responding to their volunteer's concerns and questions.
Let's hope Phase 3, when and whatever that may turn out to be, addresses these latest issues, as to be fair was done regarding those arising from phase 1. I guess it's a learning process for everyone - after all, nothing quite like this has been done before!
John
One would have hoped nonetheless that someone on the team with adequate microscope experience, as doc says, would have been responsible (and should be held accountable) for releasing such CMs.
To bebop: Nikita and I are able to post the CM concerned because it was never true that this was impossible (though they wanted you to think so!) - see here and here.
While annoying, I do retain trust in the team regarding their primary scientific efforts. I just wish that, having set up this pioneering distributed project (but perhaps bitten off more than they expected to chew!), they could spend just a little more care with the CMs and more effort responding to their volunteer's concerns and questions.
Let's hope Phase 3, when and whatever that may turn out to be, addresses these latest issues, as to be fair was done regarding those arising from phase 1. I guess it's a learning process for everyone - after all, nothing quite like this has been done before!
John
[OFF TOPIC]
OK then, I've learnt something here: I can save a link to a CM and I can even check properties out to determine whether a movie is real or not.
But I won't change my way of dusting. I was awfully serious when I was talking about my personal goal. My score is simply due to the time I spend on searching for real tracks. Which is the only reason because I'm here.
Cool stuff anyway. Thanks, John
Bye
b
[/OFF TOPIC]
Been dusting for two years, but never been involved too much in these boards. Well, it seems I missed some good info
OK then, I've learnt something here: I can save a link to a CM and I can even check properties out to determine whether a movie is real or not.
But I won't change my way of dusting. I was awfully serious when I was talking about my personal goal. My score is simply due to the time I spend on searching for real tracks. Which is the only reason because I'm here.
Cool stuff anyway. Thanks, John
Bye
b
[/OFF TOPIC]
-
bmendez
- Stardust@home Team
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:28 am
- Location: UC Berkeley Space Sciences Lab
- Contact:
Hi All,
This movie is another case of a CM that maybe could have been placed in a better spot, but is otherwise harmless.
The calibration features are inserted digitally and automatically and there are several thousand of them. There have been a few where the coordinates were off, and a few more where the digital insertions were overly compressed leaving a blocky appearance around them. We removed those as they were found.
There have been a few others where it appears that the features were inserted too high into a field that has an uneven surface. These are fairly harmless as they essentially give you a free point.
The total number of bad CMs is around 1% of all CMs. Which is excellent, by any measure. And the CMs have proved to do exactly what we intended them for, calibrate the individual responses of each Duster.
The reason we needed to calibrate the repsonses of the Dusters was to reduce "noise" and allow real features to rise to the top of our candidates list. This again has worked exceedingly well. The top candidates appear to be real features worthy of follow up.
The project has certainly had its problems with the speed at which progress has been made, but that is not all bad. Most of the slow down has been due to extra care being taken with the handling and treatment of the collector at JSC. We would have been remise to have taken risks with the collector in the interest of speed. So things have not moved as quickly as we expected back in 2006.
That being said, the project has worked very well considering the resources put toward it and we at Berkeley are very pleased with its progress and with the amazing dedication of you Dusters. And when you consider the work the science team has done in developing and executing extraction and analysis techniques for these microscopic particles trapped in "air" I think you'll find nobody more handy with microscopes.
Thanks,
-Bryan
This movie is another case of a CM that maybe could have been placed in a better spot, but is otherwise harmless.
The calibration features are inserted digitally and automatically and there are several thousand of them. There have been a few where the coordinates were off, and a few more where the digital insertions were overly compressed leaving a blocky appearance around them. We removed those as they were found.
There have been a few others where it appears that the features were inserted too high into a field that has an uneven surface. These are fairly harmless as they essentially give you a free point.
The total number of bad CMs is around 1% of all CMs. Which is excellent, by any measure. And the CMs have proved to do exactly what we intended them for, calibrate the individual responses of each Duster.
The reason we needed to calibrate the repsonses of the Dusters was to reduce "noise" and allow real features to rise to the top of our candidates list. This again has worked exceedingly well. The top candidates appear to be real features worthy of follow up.
The project has certainly had its problems with the speed at which progress has been made, but that is not all bad. Most of the slow down has been due to extra care being taken with the handling and treatment of the collector at JSC. We would have been remise to have taken risks with the collector in the interest of speed. So things have not moved as quickly as we expected back in 2006.
That being said, the project has worked very well considering the resources put toward it and we at Berkeley are very pleased with its progress and with the amazing dedication of you Dusters. And when you consider the work the science team has done in developing and executing extraction and analysis techniques for these microscopic particles trapped in "air" I think you'll find nobody more handy with microscopes.
Thanks,
-Bryan
"I am made from the dust of the stars, and the oceans flow in my veins"
- RUSH
- RUSH
For the record, my comments were that the movies were scanned automatically and that there aren't enough people to it manually. (Besides, if they did it manually, they'd be dusting). As I said before, of the few that are bad focus, many more are good. We were told from the beginning that there would be bad ones and that they would be filtered out and rescanned.
Yes, there is far more work than the Stardust team can handle, but it is because they don't have the ability to get to it. They have several projects going each and must share equipment with other people and projects. Sometimes they can only move as fast as they can get to the equipment.
And having said all that, we do a great job of working on this. I can't think of another forum that goes as smoothly as this one with such a great group of people. We have some brilliant and talented people!
Yes, there is far more work than the Stardust team can handle, but it is because they don't have the ability to get to it. They have several projects going each and must share equipment with other people and projects. Sometimes they can only move as fast as they can get to the equipment.
And having said all that, we do a great job of working on this. I can't think of another forum that goes as smoothly as this one with such a great group of people. We have some brilliant and talented people!
From dust we come
microspy
I am duly chastized. I guess I had forgotten that the scanning is done automatically. I suppose that I sounded like a 'cry baby' but with a life time of taking tests I think I may have become too focused on the tests and lost sight of the main goal. Thanks for all of the replies.