Small Track Question

[Titanium]

Hello everyone. I am here to add yet another "small track" thread.

I have run across a few movies where on the last frame, some dark specks become visible. Up until now, I have simply clicked the speck if there was only one, but I have run into one with quite a few specks. Because there are many of these specks, it leads me to believe that they are not tracks, but something else. Please tell me what you think, or if you have suggestions for this sort of situation.

Here is an example: http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =1455315V1

[ERSTRS]

Titanium, I could not find a track in your movie. I believe they are all specks, not tracks. Small tracks come into focus near the bottom, and they are "clearer" than the dots around them.

Small tracks, to me, always have a light center, and most have a satillite "dot" beside them---as you scoll, a small dot will come into focus right beside them. Not all have this, but the majority of small tracks do. A track "stands out" from the rest.

I wish I knew how to send an example, but I do not. However, in the examples available beneath the "Bad Focus" button, there is a movie containing a small tract. Check it out.

ERSTRS

[DustSabre]

At least from my experience, I would say that those are all surface particles, and not dust tracks. They do not become more focused as you move below the surface, and thus are probably only surface artifacts.

Here is a good example of a possible track that's very small. (It passed cut #1)

The track is in the lower right of the image.

[fjgiie]

Inclusions - examples
714410V1
3444791V1

Bad Focus
8746647V1

Low area maybe
8137102V1
7654784V1
Movie posted by Titanium
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =1455315V1 Is this the right movie?

Also these links may help
2 or more apparent tracks on same movie?

Should we still flag likely inclusions?

Inclusions - the conclusion?

â€

[Titanium]

Okay, this has helped me somewhat. I have personally ignored anything that goes out of focus, even if it's just a few frames before the last one. Also, if there are multiple "specks", I usually ignore it.

The main difference is that the specks I am finding are only a few pixels wide. Most of the examples shown in the other threads are rather clear to me. What you posted as examples of inclusions look like little bubbles to me. But the things I find are more solid black specks.

I forgot my question...

Well, answer me this please: how long do you spend on each movie on average? I spend up to 20 seconds, and I think I am over-analyzing things.

Thanks.

[ERSTRS]

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1

Titanium, this is an example of the smallest track I've found on CMs. It is in the lower right quadrant, and I am sure it is a track because my score was judged "correct" and raised one point when I clicked on it. Note that it is the only thing in focus on the bottom, and that it has a clear center as well as the little "satellite" beside it that comes into focus when you scroll. Not all small tracks have "satellites" but most do, as I mentioned before.

Also, tracks never "balloon" out into "bubbles" as you scroll. They just gradually fade away as you scroll up the focus lines.

My viewing resolution is set at 1024x640. I spend an average of 30 seconds on each sample.

ERSTRS
Rank #65

[Titanium]

Thank you ERSTRS, this does help me. Out of curiousity, have you ever found a track (or possible one that passes a cut) that was smaller than that?

[ERSTRS]

No, Titanium, I've not run across a track smaller than the one I sent you, either in Calibrated Movies or Real Movies.

When we click on a particle in CMs, our scores increase one point.

When we click on a possible-interstellar-dust-particle in Real Movies, it is sent to "MY Events," where it awaits NASA's evaluation in a "First Cut."

Fifteen pidp's have survived First Cut in my own "My Events", and all of them are at least 10 microns. None are smaller than that.

All of the tiny ones I've found, like I sent to you, have been in CMs. I've encountered these tiny tracks, placed randomly around a dozen samples. But, I've examined more than 75,000 Real Movies and have never found a dust particle in any of them as small as the example I sent you.

ERSTRS

[fjgiie]

About as small and faint as I have seen that look something like a CM track.
4938343V1
5262416V1
303777V1

About 4 seconds spent on a clean, clear movie and 10 to 15 s on a busy movie.

[cthiker]

About as small and faint as I have seen that look something like a CM track.
4938343V1
5262416V1
303777V1

About 4 seconds spent on a clean, clear movie and 10 to 15 s on a busy movie.

fjgiie, I concur with you (I also have 4938343V1 on "My Events" list), and the smallest CM version I've seen is the one pointed out by Evelyn earlier (which I've seen repeatedly during the course of dusting these many months).

However, my time spent per VM is significantly greater than yours - about 10 seconds on a clean, clear movie, and as many as 45-60 on a busy one. I'm sure this is a function of your greater skill and experience (you've gone through many more movies than I have) as well as, possibly, something to do with "older" eyes (mine!).

Anyway, I doubt we'll get conclusive on what a real track is until one is physically extracted from the aerogel...something that I hope will happen sooner than later.

Happy Dusting to all!!

[Titanium]

Thank you for all the responces. I have been overscrutinizing up until now. I think I also am taking a bit too long looking for tracks. I admit that I cannot find anything in 303777V1 however.

Since it seems that if you stumbled on to a movie with a track, it would be rather clear that it's there, it must be hard to be the first for any of these. Different topic I suppose, but I can only imagine how many particles you have been the first to find out of 75000 movies.

Anyway, thank you again. I will stop looking for things smaller than 5 microns now.

[KalleK]

Hello! I have been seeing plenty of small tracks. Check these movies, just few for an example. I think at least some of those movies might contain very tiny tracks of possible interstellar particles. Too bad those have very low number of agreements compared to viewings. I viewed those with both IE and Firefox.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =4807984V1
Movie 4807984V1, Viewings=70, agreements=1, status=Indeterminate
Several tracks under surface?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =1533375V1
Movie 1533375V1, 68, 2 ,Indeterminate
Several tracks?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =5189620V1
Movie 5189620V1, 71, 2, Indeterminate
Few tracks, up-right corner?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =9413219V1
Movie 9413219V1, 75, 2, Indeterminate
2 or more tracks, low middle?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =9413304V1
Movie 9413304V1, 81, 3, Indeterminate
Few tracks, up-right corner?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =8245264V1
Movie 8245264V1, 74, 2, Indeterminate
Right close to end of picture?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =6328578V1
Movie 6328578V1, 85, 2, Indeterminate
I´m not sure, but propably surface is about center of focus, so move move focus down and you´ll see tracks in the middle of the picture?

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =1182436V1
Movie 1182436V1, 64, 2, Indeterminate
Several tracks, move focus as down as possible.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =6021602V1
Movie 6021602V1, 90, 1, Indeterminate
Several tracks, lower part of picture? Move focus as down as possible

EDIT: trying to get links working for movies.
EDIT:Note some of those I think are tracks, are only barely visible, so look carefully...

[jsmaje]

KalleK - all of your 'tracks' look to me like artefactual 'inclusions', about which there has been a lot of discussion in these forums (see fjgiie's July 13th entry above for example), and which are apparently created during manufacture of the aerogel. Essentially they are enclosed specks of something or other, showing no evidence of a real track leading down following impact at the surface.

Nonetheless, I must say I'm only going to be happy with this assumption when they actually extract a few and can tell us exactly what they are and how they form. Maybe the tiniest IS particles don't in fact leave much of a visible track, though to see so many together in any one frame is (quite reasonably) thought to be highly unlikely.

[Titanium]

KalleK - I would have agreed with you at first (as my Events page shows), but I now agree with jsmaje. I think ERSTRS's words were the most helpful to me so far. But, I suppose you truely never know until you go and extract them.

Besides, constantly looking for single pixel IDP dries out my contacts too much.

[Groundling]

Hi Titanium;
One thing caught my eye in this thread. The "satellite" speck that is sometimes found with a CM, is an artifact of the CM. I worry that someone might overlook a real track which will not have such a companion.
When I was starting, I spent a lot of time with the training images and later with some of the CMs. Just to move the video up and down to watch what the track looked like from the 'surface' to the bottom.
There are hundreds of ways to define a track, maybe 23000. At the moment, I think I'll stop here.
Groundling