"There's a problem with this focus movie"

[jsmaje]

Hi Evelyn, as implied by Mike, I wouldn’t click anywhere on that feature, being to my mind one of those sets of surface-artefactual “beads” as featured here.

As far as I know, how they form is unexplained, and would really like the team to take a moment out from track detection to explore the causes of the wide range of aerogel artefacts that regularly occur, not only for dusters’ understanding, but ultimately in order to better refine their aerogel manufacturing / handling processes etc., should the same material be considered for particle collection purposes in future missions.

John

[SmithES]

Thanks, Guys, for your help and patience. I'm trying to increase my skill level by my questions. Went down from a high of 7169 yesterday to 7123 today! Am struggling.
Evelyn ERSTRS

[tudorbug]

Evelyn, let me double check that you are aware of the following.

On the screen that shows movies that we search, go to "My Events" at the top a bit to the left.

On the next screen, note the entry, "Follow 'this link' for a list of power movies you have missed during this cycle." This cycle means the period in which you are now working. Not in Phase Five, or this week or all day today but during the current minutes of effort.

Click on the active 'this link' and you will see a list of movies missed by their value; i.e., 30, 45, 55, 10 or whatever.

Click on any missed movie value and you will go to a screen that has red index marks horizontally across to each side and vertically up and down to top and bottom. Their instersection should show the grid square in the movie in which you should have clicked to be correct. I say "should show" because on occasion I cannot see anything in or reasonably proximate to the indicated grid square that even remotely looks like a "dust."

Anyway, I'm sure that you know all this but your queries about where to click began to make me believe that you might not be aware of this "training" portion of our efforts.

David

[SmithES]

Thanks, tudorbug, I haven't been down the path you so patiently showed me, because they send the missed tracks by email. I really like that feature--I can easily click on the email and get the movie I missed. However, as you say, "should show" because on occasion I cannot see anything in or reasonably proximate to the indicated grid square that even remotely looks like a "dust."
I agree wholeheartedly! The red marks are hard to read, and often I cannot find the track indicated by the red marks at the side. However, most of my misses are of of my own doing---I'm just not thorough enough. So, when I miss a movie, I go back and search for the track. Nine times out of ten, I will find it. I need to pay closer attention to each movie! I've mentioned before----I just had my 83rd birthday---and dusting has become more difficult for me. I do love it, though, and will keep at it unless I drop below the first 50. Right now, I'm, #34. Thanks to all you wonderful guys for your help. Evelyn ERSTRS (began dusting in 2006)

[DanZ]

Hi, Evelyn. I can't be sure not being able to zoom, but I don't see anything there upon which to click. The long surface feature to the right appears to be just a scratch, not a track.
Mike

Yes, the marks are very "tracky" looking, but a confirmed surface feature. Yet, no harm in clicking on it. It's not a PM.

Dan

[DanZ]

There are indeed many movies totally wrong. They assign the point only if you indicate the wrong coordinates, ie, the beginning of the track and not the end. I'll give you my small and incomplete list:
1595231V1;

This one has been a problem for most people and we really want to wipe it out of the database in all its versions. I plan to have it removed.

1770913V1;

This type has been explained before - see post here on where to click.

4987273V1;

This one has also been a problem and we want to remove it in all its forms. Thank you for reporting.

7925739V1; and 9592338V1

See post here on where to click.

[DanZ]

Second try: I just encountered a long smokey track like Caprarom described. I had quit clicking on them because it didn't matter where---head, tail or somewhere in middle---they were always counted wrong. But, since Caprarom didn't record his, I decided to report the next one I saw. A few minutes ago I clicked right behind the head. Got it wrong. Will never click on another one---I never have got it right and I've clicked all over the trail.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1

It shall be removed from the VM. Thanks for reporting!

Dan

Dan, please don't remove this movie, because I get 45 pts every time I click at 500,240, ie, the deepest part of this track, the 3407410V1.

....

Thanks
____________________
ad augusta per angusta

Anyone mind if we bring this track back? McAngus points out quite smartly that we do use it in the tutorial here http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_number=7 and where to click is well explained I think.

Dan

[DanZ]

To add to McAngus’s list, 2267262V1 looks like a vertical fiducial track to me, but by clicking on the obviously deepest part near the top margin cost me severely. The team seem to think that the wider circular & surely shallower entry point lower down in the frame is instead the deepest part, and given that it’s rated a relatively easy 20 points resulted in a 65 point penalty!

My 5279368V1 (try 460,100 - 20 pts) is the twin sister of your 2267262V1. Nice!

In other cases, similar to this, if you start from the lower part of the blue bar, the coordinates appear to be right.
There are two possibilities:
1) correct coordinates and jpg reversed;
2) wrong coordinates and jpg mounted correctly.

Where is the truth?

Definitely one we want to eliminate. Please keep reporting! Thank you.

Dan

[McAngus]

1770913V1;

This type has been explained before - see post here on where to click.

7925739V1; and 9592338V1

See post here on where to click.

My 5279368V1 (try 460,100 - 20 pts) is the twin sister of your 2267262V1. Nice!

In other cases, similar to this, if you start from the lower part of the blue bar, the coordinates appear to be right.
There are two possibilities:
1) correct coordinates and jpg reversed;
2) wrong coordinates and jpg mounted correctly.

Where is the truth?

Definitely one we want to eliminate. Please keep reporting! Thank you.

Dan

Thanks Dan,
I already know where I have to click.
I'm talking about a different problem.
With great humility I repeat: it happens that first goes in focus the end of the track (the place where we get the points) and then goes in focus the mouth of the track.
And we know that this is impossible.

[laserphil]

Hi McAngus,
Here is the explanation I received about the particular focus movie. It has caused me considerable frustration. Nice to know that it is still around!

Postby laserphil » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:28 pm
Just had a look back at the last time I posted about this track and it is one that has come through from the back of the collector. This was Dan's answer on it from page 18 of this post

Okay, don't be paranoid. This is a "track," but it came up through the aerogel from the OTHER SIDE! (just please don't ask what it is, because right now, we're not sure) Anyway, that's why the terminal end (which is where the "where to click" got placed) is not actually the deepest focus. But of course that causes the confusion you've experienced, which is not really fair and it probably should have never been turned into a PM. Thus we're working on removing it as PM. But there are "cousins" (other PMs made from the original), so if you spot them, please report them here too. Thank you!

Laserphil

[McAngus]

Thanks Laserphil,
you have answered my question: "Where is the truth?".
It is evident that, in the 17 months that I was away, I missed a lot of amenities.

McAngus

[jsmaje]

The issue of where the team now want us to click on a PM track has surely been clarified by Dan here. Yes, the apparently deepest part, but whether in focus OR NOT, rather than the deepest part that comes into full focus, which I think was the pre-phase 5 instruction.
Several new PM tracks can now in fact be entirely out of focus, so it’s a matter of looking for the probable deepest position regardless. I guess we should think from the team’s perspective, hoping to retrieve then analyse possible IS particles at whatever unpredictable depth in the aerogel.

Elaine, I’ve found your high-magnification track such as 556615V1 can be clicked on almost anywhere, being within the standard 60 pixel tolerance. Ideally though, it would be where it goes off the bottom edge, as your own previously-posted low-magnification extended (& horizontally swapped) version 3407410V1 clearly reveals, being deepest at the frame edge & where one should click, despite again not quite yet in focus.
And since you ask Dan, in agreement with McAngus, I see no reason why the latter & its other versions shouldn’t be retained.

Meanwhile, there's another occasional frame-wide track in various orientations that I personally find really confusing and daren’t click on, e.g. McAngus’s 4987273V1. To my eye the deepest part is at the right edge despite being almost invisible. The most prominent part nevertheless seems to remain at the left edge, and best-focussed in the middle. Which end / position have the team decided on? And out of interest, what do they think may have caused it?

John

[caprarom]

I'm with you on that last one, John. I also clicked on the right end the first time I encountered it. It looks like a relatively easy one, but it has a 65 rating, probably because most of us go for the "wrong" end.
Mike

[SmithES]

Hey, Guys, It's me again, complaining. I had been so careful at dusting and raised my skill to .7288. Then, I get this long track. I had given up on all of the long ones that disappear into the background, but decided to take a chance once more. Clicked on bottom of trail. Ooops! Wrong again. I cannot click on the right spot on these things! I lost down to .7261, as a result. You know, if we spot a track, why does it matter where along that track we click? At least it would be obvious that we found it.

Evelyn - ERSTRS - SmithES
P.S. I feel humbled and honored to be featured as DOM for October. I really do love dusting, and I guess I'll stick with it for as long as it lasts. (Or until I become completely senile)

Screen shot 2012-09-29 at 8.18.39 PM.png (124.53 KiB) Viewed 8168 times

[caprarom]

That particular track shows up often, Evelyn, in various orientations and magnifications. As you've already determined, you get it "correct" by clicking at the bulbous "head" end. As far as the why-it-matters-where-we-click question, Dan can give a better response. I certainly agree with you that it would be great if we could click anywhere along the track. For long tracks, however, that might be problematic for the team. They need to be sure we're not just guessing when we see something that looks like it might be a power movie, so they want to restrict the target area for correct responses. Doing that via a single block of X-Y coordinates is one thing. Trying to do that for a range of X-Y coordinates along a track may be too complex. John might have a better take on that than I.

I'm really glad you shared that photo on your "DOM" page. You and Ted both look great!

Mike C.