2 or more apparent tracks on same movie?

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Nikita
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Post by Nikita »

This was answered by MattP on the thread "Multiple Observations" in Virtual Microscope Support. He states:
"This is extremely unlikely, however if it does happen then you just click on one track."

I hope this helps!

Good Luck and happy dusting! :D
From dust we come

sligocki
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by sligocki »

Whenever the proffessionals look at these slides which you think have multiple trails I'm sure that they will figure out which are and aren't.

It has been suggested earlier to simply mark one of the trails so that it can be analyzed by a proffessional

Pollux.Castor
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:05 am

Post by Pollux.Castor »

I found one movie that I identified 3 tracks, I clicked one of them. MyEvents say that movie has been viewed 42 times and there are 12 agreements.

Does that mean 12 people said there was a track in the movie? Or that 12 people selected the same location for the track?

I hesitate to post the movie number, the people in charge can find which I am refering to by looking at my MyEvents, or send me a PM if they want more info.

rgedaly
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Location: The Woodlands, TX

2 or more apparent tracks on same movie?

Post by rgedaly »

I apologize if this has been more properly answered elsewhere ...

I've seen several posts of the question of "what to do when there are multiple tracks on the same movie?"

In my opinion, seeing what appear to be multiple tracks is rather good evidence of false tracks. In fact, when I spot what look like multiple tracks, I tend to discount them as artifacts.

The chance of capturing multiple particles on one movie is exceptionally small. I'm only guessing here, but I would say that, for each movie with two genuine tracks, there would have to be over a thousand movies with a single track.

I've not seen a report yet, but out of the thousands of movies viewed so far, I don't think there are anywhere near enough single track candidates to make it plausible to have found a movie with genuine multiple tracks.

DustBuster
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Post by DustBuster »

Hi rgedaly.

You are correct: the odds of there being more than one track in any given movie are 'astronomical'.

If you see more than one candidate on a movie, click the best one; the reviewer will examine the entire FOV, not just the coordinates where it's been clicked.

Hope that helps.

STM
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:12 am

Post by STM »

JStevens wrote:Yeah, I see those six as well. I counted four on this one.
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_id=43213
While I cannot seem to view that movie, (old style link?), I too have spotted 3 in one movie.

I understand the odds of two or more tracks in the same movie.

Therefore I'll just say that I've spotted 3 "things below the surface" on this movie.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =5699666V1

They are very subtle, but referenced from the top left,
One is about, 10% across, 10%down
Another is about 80% across, 20% down
Another is about 10% across, 60% down

They all only appear in the last few focus images towards the bottom end of the focus.

I think they look more like particles than of tracks, like what was said about another movie by albutterworth (Stardust@home Team)
albutterworth wrote:Movie 714410V1 is an example of multiple tiny black dots below the aerogel surface. They are incredibly subtle, but many of you are finding them.
We think they are probably inclusions in the aerogel (from the manufacturing process), partly because they are so numerous, and partly because they look like particles, and not like tracks made by particles. They are less likely candidates to be interstellar, but intriguing nontheless. We have logged the coordinates for a number of these black dots and we will continue trying to verify their origin.

mike foster
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Location: Burnt Ranch, CA

two notes

Post by mike foster »

1: Movie 6591512V1 has three tracks, all tiny compared to the calibration tracks I have seen. I clicked the "brightest" one, which is about a tenth of the size of the calib tracks, and MUCH fainter, and there are two others, fainter and smaller still but there. If I knew how to go back to a given movie, I'd give approx positions like some above have.

2: Not to argue, but who knows what will be found? So, to say that the odds against multiple tracks are astronomical is truly missing the boat (is that a mixed metaphor? Probably.) People once were surprised to find double stars. And crater chains on moons. And how many "fundamental" particles in the quark soup? Etc.

Okay, I have three notes. 3: How about sending the images from the bottom up, i.e. from below surface to above, instead of top down as is. Two reasons: one could be that most of the interesting stuff, as far as I can tell, is below the surface. Perhaps that might lead to more false sightings, if seekers hit the track/no track button too quickly without getting the whole movie (my problem already, I think). And two, I have probably the last dialup internet connection this side of Comet Wild 2, and, normally, I am patient enough to wait for the images for the NEXT movie to load, but maybe I (or one) could better use the time scrutinizing those possible tracks, should they appear, rather than watching schmutz and fingerprints come into focus. (This last sentence cries out for an emoticon-- I will resist.)

What the heck. It's still fun. I am truly amazed at the observational acumen evidenced in the discussions. Ashes to ashes. . .

Mike

mike foster
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re: two notes

Post by mike foster »

What the heck, I'll reply to myself. I've been browsing around the Forum, to find that my Note #1 above is well answered in the "Inclusions" thread. Howie's observations on how to tell inclusions and tiny tracks apart are on the money.

The rest of my rant stands. For now.

Mikey
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:23 pm

Post by Mikey »

JStevens wrote:Yeah, I see those six as well. I counted four on this one.
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_id=43213
Why can't I view this?

fjgiie
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Old nunbering system

Post by fjgiie »

Hi Mikey,

Notice the date on that post of JStevens. Aug 2

The numbering system was changed after that old number was posted. When the number was changed, we could no longer bring up those old numbers.

Now, the movie numbers end in V1 i believe.

Thanks,

fjgiie

NoName
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:17 pm

Post by NoName »

Maybe been squinting too long at monitor, but I think there are two in this one:

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... 09745027V1

Top right (about 75% across, 15% down and one at about 15% across, 85% down)

Am starting to go a bit cross eyed though, so could be totally off... :)

bmshaw
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Post by bmshaw »

Practicing a little bit of thread necromancy here, if that's okay (i.e. reviving one that's been dead a while).

Now that phase 1 is over and lots of data has been examined, what are people's thoughts on multiple tracks?

I'm looking at my phase 1 events, and movie 6021353V1 has been marked as 'passed cut 1' and 'possible interstellar dust particle'. But when I review the movie I can't figure out what it was that I flagged. I can see five different spots come into focus below the surface, all around the same focus level. The surface of the gel is never in focus, but four of them look equally likely to have trails above them (as opposed to just being inclusions). The fifth is so small that I can't really tell.
I visited a planet where the dominant sentient life form had no bilateral symmetry, and all I got was this lousy F-shirt.

jsmaje
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Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje »

bmshaw: I'd interpret all those features as inclusions myself, and would also like to know which one of them the team deemed to be a possible interstellar dust particle.

I can't help feeling a little worried that the team's priority seems to be analysing the highest-voted features superficially resembling their artificial calibrations, particularly if blessed by the (again highest-scoring, but not necessarily most discriminative, imaginative nor expert) Alpha Team.

That all the first extractions and analyses have so far proven negative has come as no surprise to my mind, nor to many others (see here for several links).

Am I the only one to have a forboding that, even if we ever get to and through the projected phase 3 with the entire collector analysed, nothing of indubitable interstellar origin (and more importantly of scientific interest) will ever be found?

John :cry:

fjgiie
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Re: Multiple Tracks

Post by fjgiie »

bmshaw wrote:Now that phase 1 is over and lots of data has been examined, what are people's thoughts on multiple tracks?
Two high angle tracks

Three regular tracks (sort of) (top right)

My thoughts are that there are not many multiple tracks.
jsmaje wrote:...Am I the only one to have a forboding that, even if we ever get to and through the projected phase 3 with the entire collector analysed, nothing of indubitable interstellar origin (and more importantly of scientific interest) will ever be found?
We have a long way to go looking for these interstellar tracks. My thoughts about finding them is only that it is taking so long. When we get new movies some will show up and we will find 40 or more. (my thoughts)
I like "Alpha Team" better than "Red Team" too! 8)

fjgiie :)

jsmaje
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Location: Manchester UK

Re: Multiple Tracks

Post by jsmaje »

Fjgiie, I can't find your second HAT but, if due to spacecraft collision debris for example (as suggested by the chemical composition of one or two cases so far), I'd guess multiple high-angle-tracks per unit area to be more likely than if of (random) interstellar origin.

Unless - and I don't recall this having been discussed - some IS particles had close trajectories due to having a shared origin. And/or perhaps as the result of mutual gravitational attraction? I don't know if that's an astrophysical feasibility, but after all, the stars and planets have supposedly formed through gravitational collapse of interstellar/galactic dust clouds and the process must start somewhere.

If only your second movie had more depth to see whether or not those three features de-focus as quickly as they come into focus...

I'm glad you like my 'Alpha Team' misappelation; 'Red Team' has always had a slightly discomforting military connotation to my mind.

John

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