Slightly discouraged?

Discuss your experiences with and ideas about Stardust@home here.

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minkiemink
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:55 pm
Location: Topanga, California

Slightly discouraged?

Post by minkiemink »

Hmmm...don't want to sound like a whiner...ok..I am whining a little...lol...In any case, I have gone through 8800+ real movies, (hour or two in the morning, hour or two at night), and am highly ranked. Still, virtually every event that I check off has been previously seen by upwards of 35 to 90 people prior to my viewing the movie. Are the movies truly random? Doesn't seem so, as apparently those who are ranked above me see them first. Lucky them. :-) Does this mean that I have to see enough movies to be ranked in the top 5 before I will be the first to see the movie? That's not going to happen.

Perhaps those who reach viewings of x # of multiple thousands can just skip the CMs and rankings and only see real movies? Or perhaps an increase in the randomness to even the playing field? I am putting in the time to only find a track, the rating is incidental. Do others feel the same way?

Just sounding off, as I like Icebike have started naming the CMs. that at least appear to repeat....I particularly like "turtle"...the one with a formation that looks like a turtle sticking its head up in the right hand corner... :-) :-) ;-)

Cheers,

Minkie
“The true harvest of my life is intangible - a little star dust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched”
-Henry David Thoreau

Sebastian
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:44 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Slightly discouraged?

Post by Sebastian »

minkiemink wrote:Still, virtually every event that I check off has been previously seen by upwards of 35 to 90 people prior to my viewing the movie. Are the movies truly random? Doesn't seem so, as apparently those who are ranked above me see them first. Lucky them. :-) Does this mean that I have to see enough movies to be ranked in the top 5 before I will be the first to see the movie? That's not going to happen.
I have no doubt the movies are shown randomly. Thats not the problem.

The problem is, they only have something like 60000 movies in the VM. Look at http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... c.php?t=78
Thats what the scanning status is. They wanted to start with 12 tiles ready, obviously they only had 10 done by August 1st.

And not one tile (means not one single move) has been added since. Probably due to the community keeping them busy with all the other things we demand like fixing bugs etc.

If you take this set of 60,000 movies and draw 6,000,000 times randomly, every move has to be drawn a 100 times average. This is exactly what we see.

So i'd like to know how many times do they need a movie to be looked at until the reach the degree of confidence in presence/absence of a track to be successful?

How will we know that new movies have been added?

Continuing the search without new movies is a waste of time. At least until they explain why they care for more than 100 views per movie.

TimStrange
DustMod
Posts: 94
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Location: Third stone from the Sun

Post by TimStrange »

May I ask why you think that people with high scores get the opportunity to look at movies first? It is my understanding that it is truly random. The person with the lowest score has just as much chance as the person with the highest score of being the first to view a particular movie.

petterip
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:12 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Slightly discouraged?

Post by petterip »

Sebastian wrote: The problem is, they only have something like 60000 movies in the VM.
Actually, to be specific, a software-generated random number is not necessarily that random. It depends a lot on the algorithm used. Add that to the fact that when - say, a couple of hundred - simultaenous users are going through movies in somewhat random intervals, "doubling random" may cause redundance in a small selection, like 60000 movies.
Sebastian wrote: Continuing the search without new movies is a waste of time. At least until they explain why they care for more than 100 views per movie.
Well, that's science. This is a sort of empirical study where a large group of "hits" are needed to point out that a certain movie is worth revisiting. All of us stardusters are different, and see things differently, and most of us have even understood the main goal "what to look for" differently.

We're still at early phases in our voyage to explore the unknown... but it'll get more accurate later on, believe me.

Let's keep on track until then :wink:
While not stardusting, I'd rather be driving with my Alfa.

Orion_0169
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:17 pm

Post by Orion_0169 »

Said before, I hope the movies come in and out in bunches. Or that only some candidates remain while the next batch is "released". Still think resetting the scores every time a new batch of movies comes along would really help with morale for many people.
Je ne peux pas regarder la Mer sans me demander qui vit au-delà de cela.

zuben el genubi
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:02 pm

Post by zuben el genubi »

Or reset them once a week.

stardust1
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:08 pm
Location: Germany

Post by stardust1 »

zuben el genubi wrote:Or reset them once a week.
I´m bored! seein same movies all day long.
@officials: do something and give advice! Be with us!! promote more information (eg hot candidates instead of buggy calibration movies). Do anything to motivate us!!!
Wir leben in einer Zeit vollkommener Mittel und verworrener Ziele. (Albert Einstein)

zuben el genubi
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:02 pm

Post by zuben el genubi »

Maybe they are too busy researching.
They are looking at our selections I guess,but they should keep us updated.
Give a summary of which movies they've researched,even if they came out not having a stardust particle.
Atleast give us something that makes it worth scanning those movies.
Could be they aren't sure of what they're seeing,not knowing if they should make it public or not.

stardust1
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:08 pm
Location: Germany

Post by stardust1 »

zuben el genubi wrote:Maybe they are too busy researching.
They are looking at our selections I guess,but they should keep us updated.
Give a summary of which movies they've researched,even if they came out not having a stardust particle.
Atleast give us something that makes it worth scanning those movies.
Could be they aren't sure of what they're seeing,not knowing if they should make it public or not.
Hi zuben,
I agree,
they should keep us udated, that´s the point. They don´t! My feeling is like beeing "a mouse in the circle" (hope you understand my spare and improvised english).
I hope, responsibles will realize soon.
I think, until now, they published just "a few" of all those images. Those appear multiplicated by any "click" on any grain available.
If there are more images (there are!) they should promote them soon and randomly. I dont think my interrest on this project will persist, seeing the same (useless) images again and again.
Publishing some of the "very hot canditates" would motivate and instruct the people.
kind regards

peter
Wir leben in einer Zeit vollkommener Mittel und verworrener Ziele. (Albert Einstein)

bmendez
Stardust@home Team
Stardust@home Team
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:28 am
Location: UC Berkeley Space Sciences Lab
Contact:

Post by bmendez »

Hi All,

We are updating FAQs on the message board every day and answering as many topics as we reasonably can.

Please read the following FAQs:
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... .php?t=682
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... .php?t=463

Fresh movies are on their way. We had a server glitch that needed fixing before we could upload new movies.

The project is only a week old. Patience is required.

Thank you for your participation. It is greatly appreciated.

-Bryan
"I am made from the dust of the stars, and the oceans flow in my veins"
- RUSH

minkiemink
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:55 pm
Location: Topanga, California

Post by minkiemink »

Well...since you asked Tim....I thought that perhaps it was possible that more highly ranked volunteers saw the movies first. For one reason, they certainly see more movies than the rest of us. It occured to me as well because the numbers noted of previous views in my events seem to be within range of my ranking which has been from 90 to 20 on any given day. But that may be meaningless coincidence. Then there is that random thing....

You are right Sebastian, there is nothing "random" really. Stochastic physics says that there are patterns in everything and in fact what we perceive as "random", is just an unknown sequence.

Thanks for the reply Bryan, I am guessing 100 untrained volunteers equals one highly trained paid researcher? I did figure that there would be glitches, just not quite so many. Must be the hordes that did it....I um...mean the volunteers...demanding little devils ain't we?

That said, I will be cheered when I register a possible track and see that there have only been 2 or 3 previous views. :lol:


Cheers,

Minkie
“The true harvest of my life is intangible - a little star dust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched”
-Henry David Thoreau

Nikita
DustMod
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Post by Nikita »

This thread remind me of the threads we had before the project went live! See, the stardust@home website predicted a start time in late spring, early summer. On May 17th, the forum went live. We signed up... and waited. They thought it was coming together and we got excited! ... and waited again. This happened a few times. It's not that they were teasing us, or that it was poor science, it's just that there was one thing after another and well, nothing new goes smoothly. The Stardust team explained as best as they could, as often as they could. It was clear that it would happen when it was ready. AND HERE WE ARE! Yeah, we may have to wait again, but it will all get here. In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to allow people to keep checking movies. Those of us who haven't viewed tons of movies can still get a peek at the first batch. Perhaps the team can post when new movies arrive so that anyone who wants to take a break can just check in daily for the post and not feel like they missed anything?
From dust we come

stardust1
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:08 pm
Location: Germany

Post by stardust1 »

bmendez wrote:Hi All,

We are updating FAQs on the message board every day and answering as many topics as we reasonably can.

Please read the following FAQs:
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... .php?t=682
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... .php?t=463

Fresh movies are on their way. We had a server glitch that needed fixing before we could upload new movies.

The project is only a week old. Patience is required.

Thank you for your participation. It is greatly appreciated.

-Bryan
Hi Bryan,

thank you for your reply.

My concern is: There is too much energy spent on to little "real stuff"
Let me explain: Until now (stats token 2006.Aug.09 at 21.15 GMT) the top 100 had a score sum of about 200 000. This might be (seen conservatively) a working time of about 2 000 hours (because we are fast :wink: ). Imagine the other 9 000 volunteers dooing the job, it sums to a minimum of 50 000 hours of volunteers working time until now. Spent on at most 50 000 movies.
Do you think that´s adequate? consider this http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... c.php?t=78

regards

peter (stardust1)
Last edited by stardust1 on Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wir leben in einer Zeit vollkommener Mittel und verworrener Ziele. (Albert Einstein)

stardust1
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:08 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Slightly discouraged?

Post by stardust1 »

minkiemink wrote:Hmmm...don't want to sound like a whiner...ok..I am whining a little...lol...In any case, I have gone through 8800+ real movies, (hour or two in the morning, hour or two at night), and am highly ranked. Still, virtually every event that I check off has been previously seen by upwards of 35 to 90 people prior to my viewing the movie. Are the movies truly random? Doesn't seem so, as apparently those who are ranked above me see them first. Lucky them. :-) Does this mean that I have to see enough movies to be ranked in the top 5 before I will be the first to see the movie? That's not going to happen.

Perhaps those who reach viewings of x # of multiple thousands can just skip the CMs and rankings and only see real movies? Or perhaps an increase in the randomness to even the playing field? I am putting in the time to only find a track, the rating is incidental. Do others feel the same way?

Just sounding off, as I like Icebike have started naming the CMs. that at least appear to repeat....I particularly like "turtle"...the one with a formation that looks like a turtle sticking its head up in the right hand corner... :-) :-) ;-)

Cheers,

Minkie
don´t worry about "seen before" movies,
it´s the opposite:
people with high scores get the same as you and even more of them. Seen again and again!
The problem might be: they don´t have any more until now. (last few new ones yesterday)

peter (stardust1)
Wir leben in einer Zeit vollkommener Mittel und verworrener Ziele. (Albert Einstein)

endust
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:42 am
Location: Kansas City

Post by endust »

The stardust team only have a limited data base at this time, but even as new movies are added the size of the viewing database probably wont change much as older movies will go out of circulation. What will change is the rate at which the database is viewed. I suspect that after the newness of this site has worn off (which seems to be the case already judging from the comments) the amount of viewing will settle down to a much lower amount. The same 6,000,000 views that occurred in just one week now, may require three weeks two months from now.

Somewhere I saw the statement "this is a marathon not a sprint". Its very true. This is real science and it will go slow and methodically.

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