No Track Evident

[tudorbug]

I'm becoming impatient with movies that reduce my score when I choose "No Track". Evidently the scoring device believes a track is present even though I can't find one.

Here is my latest example: 4842311V1

I'm a clock maker by hobby and I've been using my clock maker's loupe to view movies since some of the tracks are very small and very light. I did so in this case and did not see a track. When my score was reduced I went back and looked carefully through the movie again with the loupe.

I still don't see a track. Can anyone point me to the correct place to look and what to look for when I get there?

Very kindly, David

[jsmaje]

Hi tudorbug,

Re: movie 4842311V1, this has to be the cheekiest calibration track I've seen so far!
I could only find the track (if I have) at about 2/3 the way down the blue bars and at high magnification (using the browser facility rather than a loupe).

I suspect it's the feature with two small blobs (shown below) in the bottom-left of the frame. While their depth disparity is indeed subtle, they are at least subsurface, and one can make out a faint bubbly 'track' between them. Lacking is the 'ghostly' trail leading from the surface that we've been led to expect and hope to see as an indication of impact direction, as exhibited by the commoner cal tracks. I presume, therefore, it is supposed to be outside the frame to the left, coming from from a NW direction. On this basis I would have clicked on the lower fragment at 12/321, as opposed to that at 3/308:



Dan, what in fact are the 'correct' coordinates here? It would help our understanding of what it is that the team wish us to be looking for and clicking on.

John

[greuti]

You got it right, John. It's the one of the "two" tracks in use that is really really hard to spot sometimes. There're other calibration movies which are even more difficult - especially because of the illumination and the used size of this track.

Regarding the position to click on it. I assume it doesn't matter where you click on the track (when your browser calculates/sends the asked/appropriate coordinates). I didn't test it out, but I assume there's a given (small) space around it where you can click on.

For the purpose of finding and correctly identify a new track I would click on or near the deepest point of the track (or the farthermost entered particle) you can spot there in. For example at about 125/150 on http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... =2443970V1


Edited: Ok, I checked it out. By clicking on about the center of the track that leads to the big particle (of the other calib. track) I got scored wrong. So it seems really you have to click very exact and close to the particle(s).

[tudorbug]

Thank you both for you notes. Tracks as difficult to find as this one are keeping my specificty at or below a mediocre 80%. This causes me to wonder if I should be involved in this effort at all.

David

[tudorbug]

OK, I've been back to the movie and I still cannot identify the track, even after it's location has been pointed out by you, John.

The kind of disappointment that I receive when I cannot find a track correctly and thus receive a scoring penalty is more that I want to put up with, especially since I'm putting in a real effort. I believe it is time for me to end my particpation.

I will bring my score up to a nice round number, perhaps 180, and stop. I do wish all the others who have the skill (and visition) that the effort demands the best of luck.

It is simply not enjoyable when one cannot perform.

Very kindly, David

[tudorbug]

John and Dan. Again, to emphasize, I am very, very grateful for the information and detail that you each so very carefully provided.

I appreciate it very, very much. I know that such answers take time and effort.

Very sincerely, David

[DanZ]

I believe the "blob" to the left (on the edge of the slide) is where the particle entered, and the blob to the right and down is where it stopped, making that the correct choice. But yes, it's hard to see any of it! I suppose the point being, look really carefully. But, according to the database, many have found it.

David, I understand your frustration, and if you're not having fun, then it is not something you should be doing. But we hope you stick with it a little longer and see how it goes.

Cheers,

Dan

[Chuck Crisler]

I would like to add my 2 cents. I won't quit because I really do believe in the project. However, some of the calibration tracks just seem way to hard. Do they really reflect the potential tracks? In Phase I it was stated that tracks 'really should' go well below the bottom focus. That idea seems to be out. Tonight I missed 5 tracks out of about 90 total movies. On 4 I backed up to search again and found 1. Here are the IDs of the 3 that I couldn't find.

8950432V1
8093710V1
5416903V1

I appreciate the need for careful dusting, but isn't this a bit much? I really demoralizes me, and seemingly others.

Chuck

[jsmaje]

Chuck,

The track in CM 8950432V1 is just right-of-center, coming from a NNE direction, the central 'blob' being at 346/163, and the terminal particle (to be clicked on) at 334/185.

Both 8093710V1 and 5416903V1 are in fact real movies (without a CM track) according to their file details. Have you got those numbers right?

John

[DanZ]

Thanks John for pointing out the correct coordinates on the one CM and that the other two are indeed real movies.

As far as your other points Chuck, most of the CMs are cuts and pastes of Orion, the particle that we most believe is possibly the real thing and the type of thing we most want to find more of. So, it makes sense to use them in the CMs. As far as where to click, you should review the previous discussion thread here.

But let me know if you need more help.

Thanks for hanging in there!

Dan

[fjgiie]

This CM is a very difficult one for me to see. I bet I have missed it ever time it came up. No trail to see and I have no idea where to click.

             fjgiie

(log in to the VM and then hit the back button twice)

[Mitchell Criswell III]

Hi John,

I see a midnight track in the bottom right about 325x350 pointing at 1:00. It is faint to be sure.

Regards,
Mitchell

[DanZ]

This CM is a very difficult one for me to see. I bet I have missed it ever time it came up. No trail to see and I have no idea where to click.   fjgiie

It popped out right away for me fjgiie. Look directly above "Movie id:" below the movie.

Dan

[laserphil]

I don't know if this is the correct place to put this but here goes.

Be careful when clicking on the track in movie 8380273V1. The image moves as you scan through the focus bar. I have developed a bad habit of clicking whenever I first detect the track and so was scored incorrect on this CM - probably because it was outside of the 30 pixel limit set by the team - the image of the track definitely moves more than 30 pixels from first detection to end of focus. Just where should one click in this case?

Phil

[DanZ]

Be careful when clicking on the track in movie 8380273V1. The image moves as you scan through the focus bar. ... Phil

Well that's a new one! Thanks Phil, I'll see if anything can be done about it, and if not, how to handle it.

Dan