Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post here if you are having any kind of problem with the Stardust@home website.

Moderators: Stardust@home Team, DustMods

Post Reply
ERSTRS
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:39 am
Location: home
Contact:

Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by ERSTRS »

100 micron # 339373V1

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1

There's clearly a track in the upper left of this movie. It has appeared twice and each time that I click on it, It is counted "incorrect." Am I not right? Looks like a good track to me.
ERSTRS
Evelyn

Ronald C. Spencer
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:25 am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by Ronald C. Spencer »

Your correct Evelyn, there is no doubt whatsoever that that is a track, there must be a flaw somewhere in the system and it's not you :) I found the frame and looked at it. It's a track as clear as day. Sorry you were docked twice. That can be discouraging at times. I looked at the frame and saw the track immediately ! :)

Dr. Spencer
Astronomer
Astronomer's have Stars in their eye's

startrak
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:53 pm
Location: Kennebunk, ME

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by startrak »

I was also docked on that one. To me it sends the message don't click on something like this just because it looks like a track but is a little bit different.

Mitchell Criswell III
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by Mitchell Criswell III »

Hi,

Looks like a movie that was supposed to be loaded in system as a sensitivity CM was put in as a specificity CM. Nobody is perfect.

Mitchell

elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by elainekeefe »

May I suggest that those of you who are not getting credited for clicking on this movie may be clicking in the wrong place. The Omega track which is used in most positive cm's looks like this:

........

The "dot" I have marked in red is where you should click.

ERSTRS
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:39 am
Location: home
Contact:

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by ERSTRS »

Thanks for everyone's help and replies. Like Dr. Spencer, I always click between the dots, just a little above the red dot in the example that Elaine submitted. It's worked so far for thousands of them, except this one. I have it cataloged in my brain now and will by-pass that movie next time it appears. Evelyn
Evelyn

Mitchell Criswell III
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by Mitchell Criswell III »

Hi again everyone,

I disagree with you Elaine. Page four of the tutorial shows the correct place to click is the farthest fragment. I would have clicked your other dot not the red one. On really faint tracks I some times zoom the page to 150%, the picture is fuzzy but I can see the direction of impact and I click way from it.

best regards,
Mitchell

elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by elainekeefe »

Evelyn and Mitchell,

I am only going by my own experience. It is where I always click, and I have only 2 positive cm errors, both of which I missed entirely. Considering I have clicked on over 900 cm's, I assume this movie has come up several times and I have always been scored correct. Also, when Phase 3 started, there were many cases of people clicking in the wrong spots, as noted in this thread:

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... f=3&t=3360

I checked, and that particular movie was not among the ones mentioned, so maybe you are correct and I just have not received that movie.

Elaine
Last edited by elainekeefe on Mon May 31, 2010 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

tudorbug
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by tudorbug »

In the movie that began this thread, would one not click on the "dot" to the lower right? This is the dot that sports an adjacent "tail" pointing along the line of centers of the two dots.

I wonder is it not ture that if one clicks between the dots one runs the risk of clicking more that 30 pixels away from the correct spot which would generate a scoring error?

Is this not true?

An interesting movie. I wish they were all this clear, darn it!

David, a Novice

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by jsmaje »

My pennyworth's:

Like Mitchell, I have to disagree with you Elaine - see this thread started by McAngus about 4476661V1 and 'her sisters'.

I believe that we've been asked to click on the furthest-observable terminal particle in a potential track, i.e. the left-most black dot of your graphic and, regarding 339373V1, the one arrowed here (I aplogize for the poor-quality images in this post):

Image

I think we're all by now aware that there seem to be only two similar-looking CM sample tracks, as shown above, pasted this-way-that-and-the-other, but one (track #2) with the terminal particle (black) about twice as distant from the central blob (red) compared to the other (track #1).

Also, as tudorbug implies, and as was eventually confirmed in the above thread, the team have a generous 30 pixel radius of tolerance (60 pixels diameter).
So one will almost always get away with clicking the central blob (Elaine's red dot) in the case of small-to-medium-sized versions of either sample track, and mostly so in the case of larger versions of the shorter sample (#1), but not necessarily of the longer one (#2). I'm pretty sure, as Mitchell says, that it is Elaine's black dot that in either case they are in fact after (i.e. the terminal particle that they would be interested in analysing, rather than the central 'blob' that is most likely due to aerogel impaction - see below).

Regarding 339373V1 then, my rough measurements from the screen are that the central blob is at ~152/33, the further terminal particle at ~128/21, the radial distance between them in pixels being ~28, i.e. just (but only just) within the acceptable limit. But it would only take a pixel or two's difference in the team's logging of the location of these features for the 30 pixel limit to be exceeded.

Meanwhile, I've found (without exception so far) that if ever in total doubt about where to click, particularly when the track is very faint,
fuzzy or crossing the frame edge, a reasonable compromise is to click halfway between where you think those two regular features may be.

I'm sure (at least hope) that some sort of latitude regarding where one may click on a potential track within real movies (which may well have a quite different characteristics to the two CM samples) will be sufficient to alert the team to something worth reviewing, which has to be the point of our participation after all.

In which regard it's worth reproducing what DanZ said in the above thread, i.e. that he ..." was told the 'big blob' is some messed up aerogel, but I've asked again. Regardless, whatever it is, it's not the terminal particle, but because it was there to begin with, it was included for every cut and paste used for the CMs ... but please understand, the scientists and technicians on this project are very busy analyzing particles and trying to get more tiles scanned. So as long as dusters now know where to click, they're not too concerned with blemishes or how much leeway are in the CMs ...".
Personally, I'm not sure whether that's reassuring or not.

John

[Edit: it would have been better if I'd reproduced DanZ's subsequent post, that the central 'big' blob (at least in the case of the Orion-based CM) has unambiguously been confirmed to be composed of condensed aerogel, as is typical of all cometary particle tracks on the opposite side of the collector].
Last edited by jsmaje on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by elainekeefe »

I stand corrected. :oops: All this time I have thought the large (red) dot was Orion and the smaller one was Sirius. This is what I thought I remembered from the film that Andrew Westphal posted (which I can no longer access). Apparently, as you can see from this link, which I just accessed, I had it backwards.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_id=76543

Apparently the two "blobs" are close enough together that clicking on the larger one, as I do, still keeps it within the required parameters. I will, however, continue to click there since it has always worked for me. I hope at some point that I get the cm Evelyn posted so I can click on the "red" dot and see what happens. I'll let you know.

Elaine

tudorbug
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by tudorbug »

John, good write up and I thank you. I'll switch dots on which I click.

Very sincerely, David

fjgiie
DustMod
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 8:47 am
Location: Hampton, SC, US

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by fjgiie »

Hi Y'all,

What John said.

          _______fjgiie

DanZ
Site Admin
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:44 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Re: Track in this movie, but It's counted incorrect

Post by DanZ »

Seems you figured it out (all of it) without me - wonderful!

But in case you are wondering, the coordinates entered for where to click on this CM are X125,Y23. If it were me, I probably would have put X at 128, and in fact, I've just changed it.

Dan

Post Reply