I hope these new discoverys will........................

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DustTrailFinder

Post by DustTrailFinder »

DustyStar wrote:Oh, ye of little minds...
I'm pretty sure the intent of that statement is to belittle someone's opinion without stating a rational reason or making any attempt to refute it. That may be an accepted practice on most message boards, but it won't get you a tenth of a penny here.

DustyStar
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Post by DustyStar »

joecor99 wrote:Carl Sagan said that the chance of man evolving was 1 in 10 to the 2,000,000,000th power. Fred Hoyle expressed it another way: The chances of man evolving are equivalent to those of a twister passing through a junk yard and assembling a 747.

According to Emile Borel, a French scientist and expert in the area of probability, an event on the cosmic level with a probability of less than 1 out of 10, to the 50th power, will not happen. The probability of producing one human cell by chance is 10, to the 119,000 power. Also, Fred Hoyle has calculated that the probability of a SINGLE MOLECULE of DNA coming into existance by chance is 1 in 10 to the 40,000 power.

What a weird place to have a religious debate, but, ok...

For what it's worth- and that may be nothing- I don't care if you believe the Tooth Fairy created the universe the day before yesterday, that Lassie was Rin-Tin-Tin’s Brother or that elves make all of the Keebler cookies. Feel free to believe what you want to, but I want you to quit feeling so sanctimonious about it. …Don’t expect me to buy into it and quit implying that I haven’t evolved as well as you, just because I don’t buy into it.

Aside from all of that, do I understand that your argument(s) - at least in this forum - is/are based entirely on quotations of Carl Sagan, Fred Hoyle and Emile Borel? To be sure, these were quite learned men, but I suspect that neither of them will be remembered for their anecdotal statistics. Nor do I think there is any proof to be found in the quotes you offer here.

…Did Carl Sagan really say that?...

What can a guy buy for a tenth of a penny around here?....
Stinking? We don't need no badges Stinking!

DustTrailFinder

Post by DustTrailFinder »

DustyStar wrote:What a weird place to have a religious debate, but, ok...

For what it's worth- and that may be nothing- I don't care if you believe the Tooth Fairy created the universe the day before yesterday, that Lassie was Rin-Tin-Tin’s Brother or that elves make all of the Keebler cookies. Feel free to believe what you want to, but I want you to quit feeling so sanctimonious about it. …Don’t expect me to buy into it and quit implying that I haven’t evolved as well as you, just because I don’t buy into it.

Aside from all of that, do I understand that your argument(s) - at least in this forum - is/are based entirely on quotations of Carl Sagan, Fred Hoyle and Emile Borel? To be sure, these were quite learned men, but I suspect that neither of them will be remembered for their anecdotal statistics. Nor do I think there is any proof to be found in the quotes you offer here.

…Did Carl Sagan really say that?...

What can a guy buy for a tenth of a penny around here?....
I agree with you, this is a "weird place to have a religious debate." The subject is not one I think is appropriate here, but it also appears that it will not disappear by wishful thinking.

I would also like to know if "Carl Sagan really" said that and if the other figures attributed to Hoyle and Borel are true. Further, even if they truly made those statements and calculations, I'd like to know how they came up with them.

This is a much better way of questioning others' statements, don't you think? And I doubt you can buy anything of consequence with a tenth of a penny anywhere!

Are you sure that elves don't make Keebler's cookies? Now I have to give up the last sinful delight that made life worthwhile.

Sun Tzu II
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Post by Sun Tzu II »

MORE clarification. Please read more books.

1.
Mutation can happned in several ways. Insertion, deletion, ect. Evolution can go forward, backward, sideways, whichever way. If it helps with survival and reproduction, it stays. If it's causing more harm that good, it'll become less prevalent or even fade into history.

2.
For the record, I did say matter can be converted in to energy (as in matter-antimatter annilation) and vice versa.

3.
Even if those statistics are to be believed (I'd love to see his chalk board too), you have 1.1 billion years for life to appear. That's a lot of time for twisters to sweep over your junkyard.

4.
Law of entropy comes under the study of THERMODYNAMICS, which is the study of the transfer of ENERGY.

5.
The distiction between chemical and nuclear reaction remains, although they are also studied under the subject "Chemistry". (Physics too, to be fair. Its a bit of an overlap.) In fact, I just answered that question in a test a few days back (State 4 differences between nuclear and chemical reactions). I got full marks for that question, yay~


This is getting out of hand. People are getting ticked off. I'd wish for the mods to close this topic down.
Amazing how much interest specks of dust can spark

DustyStar
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Post by DustyStar »

DustTrailFinder wrote: Are you sure that elves don't make Keebler's cookies? Now I have to give up the last sinful delight that made life worthwhile.

Hey, DTF... Remember: You Can believe that elves make all Keebler cookies!... In fact, I believe! What... you think I don't believe commercials?!!

BTW- I haven't offered an argument in either posting. I did question Joe’s (?) assertions, and I (sorta) questioned the strength of his arguments, but I didn’t really assert a contrary view. I do admit to an implication, though.

I didn’t intend the first post to be malicious. Negative maybe, but really, it was just me playing around (bastardizing) a scriptural quote. My tongue was stuck in my cheek as I typed both posts (for the most part)- I promise.

I’m out the door now for the weekend, so I won’t be able to see your reply to this until Monday. I do look forward to it, though. I want everybody to be happy and to have a good weekend. Keep a smile on your face and try to put one on the faces of those around you; I’ll try to do the same.

*Tip-O-The-Hat*
Stinking? We don't need no badges Stinking!

Aquila Hawk
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Post by Aquila Hawk »

DustTrailFinder wrote:
Aquila Hawk wrote:Dust: I can definately see that, considering a lot of nuclear science was still hush hush 40 years ago. How long was it before the US publicly said that it was an atomic weapon that wiped out Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I don't honestly know the answer to that, but I suspect that it was well advertised to scare the hell out of Japanese defenders at the time. That was before I was born. I can also tell you that it was not hush hushed 40, or even 50 years ago. Many American citizens were building atomic bomb shelters underground in their backyards at that time. The critical technology was a closely held secret, not the general knowledge that it existed or the theory to explain it. The cold war really started in the 50's when the US, UK, France, and the USSR started building their large arsenals of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, ICBM's, with nuclear warheads. It was no secret.
Actually, there was period of time that the US just said that it was the result of fire bombing. I don't think it was until USSR started testing that they confirmed the existance of nuclear weapons.
This is getting out of hand. People are getting ticked off. I'd wish for the mods to close this topic down.
I agree, emotions are getting a little fired up here. Honestly, this is a debate that my never end short of God coming down and saying evolution exists or not.
Everyone talks about SOH CAH TOA, but no one ever talks about CHO SHA CAO.

DustTrailFinder

Post by DustTrailFinder »

Aquila Hawk wrote:Actually, there was period of time that the US just said that it was the result of fire bombing. I don't think it was until USSR started testing that they confirmed the existance of nuclear weapons.
Here's the Truman Library website copy of a translation of pamplets that were being dropped over Japan starting on August 6, 1945, the day Hiroshima was bombed:

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlesto ... genumber=1

And this is from Wikipedia about the atomic bombings in Japan:
There is also some question as to how much Truman knew about the initial bombing. In his diary, he states that he told Secretary of War Stimson "to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target, not men, women, and children", and that they were in accord that "the target will be a purely military one".[37] Immediately after the bombing, Truman gave a speech stating, "The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians," seemingly not realizing that Hiroshima was a major city.

TimStrange
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Post by TimStrange »

Aquila Hawk wrote:
Dust: I can definately see that, considering a lot of nuclear science was still hush hush 40 years ago. How long was it before the US publicly said that it was an atomic weapon that wiped out Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

DustTrailFinder wrote:
I don't honestly know the answer to that, but I suspect that it was well advertised to scare the hell out of Japanese defenders at the time. That was before I was born. I can also tell you that it was not hush hushed 40, or even 50 years ago. Many American citizens were building atomic bomb shelters underground in their backyards at that time. The critical technology was a closely held secret, not the general knowledge that it existed or the theory to explain it. The cold war really started in the 50's when the US, UK, France, and the USSR started building their large arsenals of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, ICBM's, with nuclear warheads. It was no secret.

Aquila Hawk wrote:
Actually, there was period of time that the US just said that it was the result of fire bombing. I don't think it was until USSR started testing that they confirmed the existance of nuclear weapons.

The President went on the radio the next day and told the nation of the atomic bomb, I have a recording of it. Here is a link to the press release that went along with it:
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/publicpape ... 0&st=&st1=

They were not trying to hide the fact that we had atomic weapons from the world, just the opposite, we were trying to make the Japanese think we had all kinds (we used the only 2 that we had). If we had to use another one, it would have been a while before it would have been ready.

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Post by mattp »

Sun Tzu II wrote: This is getting out of hand.
Agreed! This is way off topic now.

Topic locked.
Matt

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