I hope these new discoverys will........................

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joecor99
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Post by joecor99 »

DustTrailFinder wrote: I think it's entirely possible that elementary organic molecules came from beyond earth and accumulated both within it and on its surface. There is ample evidence that organic molecules exist on comets. It's also possible that some organic molecules were created on earth through natural processes on earth itself. At this moment in time no one can be absolutely certain how life began, nor can they be certain where it started. All we do know is that on earth, you and I do exist and that records exist that tend to show how we and other animals evolved over time from previous living organisms.
According to Emile Borel, a French scientist and expert in the area of probability, an event on the cosmic level with a probability of less than 1 out of 10, to the 50th power, will not happen. The probability of producing one human cell by chance is 10, to the 119,000 power. Also, Fred Hoyle has calculated that the probability of a SINGLE MOLECULE of DNA coming into existance by chance is 1 in 10 to the 40,000 power.

This would also invalidate the theory that life originated on another planet and travelled through space to get here. Like I stated before, if something is a physical and mathematical impossibility here, taking the question to somewhere in space wouldn't change anything: if it is mathematically impossible here, it would also be impossible anywhere else.

I could give many more evidences against evolution, but I guess I've been going on long enough. :)
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

Gen. 1:3

billykkutter
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Anyone interested in an updated theory:

Post by billykkutter »

may check out http://www.panspermia.org/



kutter out
I have lots of dust for all to examine.....the wind
blows here alot....

kutter

joecor99
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Post by joecor99 »

An interesting web site, Billy. The evidence given on that site seems to co-incide, intentionally or not, with what I've been contending: that evolution would be impossible ANYWHERE, not just on earth. :idea:
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

Gen. 1:3

DustTrailFinder

Post by DustTrailFinder »

Again, I don't want to get involved in religion and won't.

The probability is 100% that you and I exist, humans, no matter what the mathematics are or what "experts" can predict or eliminate from probability.

From scientific observation the universe is still mostly made of the fundamental element hydrogen. From helium to the heavier elements it is known that they are generated from hydrogen in the nuclear processes within the cores of stars (suns). It is also known that dying stars of various sizes explode in nova and supernova explosions that emit their contents into space.

It is also evident from the study of fossils that forms of life have evolved, one to another, during the relatively short life, in terms of the universe, here on earth. Even before current fossil evidence revelations, scientists who studied nature, both before Darwin and after him, saw the clues in actual living species. Now that we have discovered one of the fundamental structures of life, DNA, the evidence becomes that much stonger.

The only observation I will make about religion is that it is totally about faith, that is, belief in that which can not be proven or disproven. No one can successfully dispute it or prove it is so. Yet so many people have been so indoctrinated to such faiths that they are willing to kill "infidels," non-believers, in support of their beliefs. If the Crusades were not about killing Islams, what were they about? I am left to wonder when the people of this world will finally learn to live together and tolerate without prejudice those with alternative beliefs.

tareq
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Post by tareq »

you are both right, just live your life no matter how we get here, just enjoy the moment. :wink:

Ferrum
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Post by Ferrum »

I'm curious...for those of you on this board who do not believe that evolution could have occurred without the assistance of a higher power, what is your rational for participating in this search? Considering that the discovery of interstellar dust grains will "yield important insights into the evolution of the Sun its planets and possibly even the origin of life itself," why do you wish to further the cause of those who believe in evolution of the universe, biological entities, and intelligence? A significant part of this project is focused on cementing even further the scientific foundation for the evolution of our solar system...why assist such an endeavor?
The integral sec y dy
From zero to one-sixth of pi
Is the log to base e
Of the square root of three.
Um...times the square root of the fourth power of i.

PeteSeeker
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Post by PeteSeeker »

a wise man once said that science is based on probablility and theories, religion is based on truth..

--in that faith will give you an unshakable answer, the right answer that does not change, in science the answer is in realation to time and knowlege, it can always be found to change current knowlege.

what we know of our universe as our beginnings will always change as we look further into our surroundings and evaluate what we know to be true, we once belive the earth to be flat, the universe to be stationary, and Newton and Leibniz were crazy with their crackpot idea of calculus.....


..damn these soapboxes, they're all over the place...
Image

tareq
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Post by tareq »

Ferrum wrote:I'm curious...for those of you on this board who do not believe that evolution could have occurred without the assistance of a higher power, what is your rational for participating in this search?
i dont wanna be religous now, but am a believer, and i believe that there's a higher power that controls our life, and all the science around us is a strong prove, and the holly books(bible, quran...etc) all contain the power of god, who creats this huge universe, also it contains all the science we knew now, all the science, starting from the big bang, ending with the DNA.
but the only thing that matters now is that we are here, and lets enjoy our life, dont judge on people based on whether they believe in god or not, just let it go and take it easy, no body whatever he was has the right to make judges on people, i respect your point of view and you have to respect mine, that's what all science about, respect each other, and listen to each other. And my love to science based on trying to be a usefull human being, who works hard to achieve the highest level of knowledge, i know that no body could reach that, but at least we should try like Newton, Einstein and other scientests, and by the way most of them were believers. And just to keep in mind i strongly support stardust mission, and other scientifical experiments whatever the result was.

lets take for example me and DustTrailFinder, he do believe in evolution theory and i dont, but he respects my idea and i do respect his, although we have different believes and am muslim and he's a christion but i dont care, he is a respected open minded scientifical human being, and accept criticism as i do, am sure if we've met in some place and some time we will gonna be best friends, and help each other in best and worse, inspite of our difference.

any way am sure all of us who joined this project is aware enough to realize that, and we should help each other, not judging each other.

Aquila Hawk
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Post by Aquila Hawk »

Newton- Ordained anglican minister
Einstien once said that he worked in science to find God's hand (or something of that nature)
Darwin- strongly anti-evolution, believe it or not. He was a very conflicted man and did not write "Origin of Spicies" until a friend suggested he write his theories down before he died. At the time, Darwin thought he was close to the next life. Darwin formed the hypothesis of evolution while serving as the HMS Beagle's naturalist. From there, he took evidence from fossils and living creatures and formed a theory around the hypothesis. With a theory formed, he spent much of the rest of his life essentially second guessing himself. He was a man highly devote in his faith, and did not waiver from it. He was even going to be a priest before the Beagle mission. I would actually encourage everyone here that has not read it to read "Origin of Species". It contains more then one of the most controversial theories in scientific history, but the thoughts of a very conflicted man.

Sorry I went on so long about that. I didn't mean to step on a soapbox there.

Anyway, tareq, you have it right. We all came here for our own individual reasons, but came here with a single mission in mind. There are only so many places where such a broad base of nationalities and ethnicities have come together in a common peaceful goal to advance all of humanity. What we may find in that aerogel may even begin to show how petty the differences we tend to cling to are and how our tendencies to blindly judge others does nothing but divide a single common race. The six billion strong human race. None of us should forget that we are for all in tense and purposes one people spread across the face of a world. Here, we show the world that. 277 of us are communicating togther from across this world in a unified goal.

All I can say to everyone is take part in this project with ethusiasm and with your reasons in mind. Do so without questioning other's idiologies, and do so in cooperation with every member. With this, let us show the rest of humanity that we can all come together and put aside our diffences for the good of everyone.

Hmm... these soapboxes are everywhere.
Everyone talks about SOH CAH TOA, but no one ever talks about CHO SHA CAO.

PeteSeeker
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Re: Sorry friend....close but not peanut butter cookie

Post by PeteSeeker »

billykkutter wrote:Far more complex now......the main premise is that life has always existed....

kutter out....always been around....
Kinda like Hinduism, the great cycle of birth and rebirth although in Hinduism the universe is created and detroyed, and so are the Gods, only thing that isn't is Ohm but, that's a topic for another thread.

I've always enjoyed learning about all kinds of "creation" myths from different cultures as well as science, not that I but into creationism though....
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PeteSeeker
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Post by PeteSeeker »

tareq wrote:
Ferrum wrote:I'm curious...for those of you on this board who do not believe that evolution could have occurred without the assistance of a higher power, what is your rational for participating in this search?
i dont wanna be religous now, but am a believer, and i believe that there's a higher power that controls our life, and all the science around us is a strong prove, and the holly books(bible, quran...etc) all contain the power of god, who creats this huge universe, also it contains all the science we knew now, all the science, starting from the big bang, ending with the DNA.
but the only thing that matters now is that we are here, and lets enjoy our life, dont judge on people based on whether they believe in god or not, just let it go and take it easy, no body whatever he was has the right to make judges on people, i respect your point of view and you have to respect mine, that's what all science about, respect each other, and listen to each other. And my love to science based on trying to be a usefull human being, who works hard to achieve the highest level of knowledge, i know that no body could reach that, but at least we should try like Newton, Einstein and other scientests, and by the way most of them were believers. And just to keep in mind i strongly support stardust mission, and other scientifical experiments whatever the result was.

lets take for example me and DustTrailFinder, he do believe in evolution theory and i dont, but he respects my idea and i do respect his, although we have different believes and am muslim and he's a christion but i dont care, he is a respected open minded scientifical human being, and accept criticism as i do, am sure if we've met in some place and some time we will gonna be best friends, and help each other in best and worse, inspite of our difference.

any way am sure all of us who joined this project is aware enough to realize that, and we should help each other, not judging each other.
I think that critical thinking is the most important part, the fact ath you ask the questions and not what your answer is...
Image

Ferrum
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Post by Ferrum »

Tareq, no one is judging you, but it does matter how we got here, at least in my mind. I only find it interesting that, for instance joecor99, who feels that a natural evolution of our universe, solar system, etc., didn't occur, would assist in a project to in part establish how it did evolve. I certainly don't disagree with any motivation that he might have; I simply am curious as to what that might be. Love of science is always a viable rationale. I couldn't agree more with your statement about all of us acting as open minded scientific beings, and I truly enjoy the opportunity to communicate freely and openly with the individuals who have joined this forum thus far.

AH, beautiful thoughts and powerful imagery. However, I doubt that this project or forum will be a way for "humanity" to come together as one, any differently than any other volunteer multinational undertaking. It's one heck of a cooperative venture, but (most) of us are here to find interstellar dust grains in aerogel. I too would hope that we can question one another's ideologies respectfully, but questioning ones belief system (whether or not it is based on a omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being) is not inherently wrong. I've read "Origin of Species," but the fact remains that despite Darwin's uncertainty 150 years ago, overwhelming scientific evidence exists to support said theory. By no means does this rule out the existence of a higher power (practically nothing can). Science and religion are separate, and fulfill separate, althought not entirely dissimilar, needs. The answer to how we were formed is important; faith is nonetheless a beautiful thing. Perhaps I found my soapbox, eh?
The integral sec y dy
From zero to one-sixth of pi
Is the log to base e
Of the square root of three.
Um...times the square root of the fourth power of i.

joecor99
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 6:50 am
Location: Seattle, Washington
Contact:

Post by joecor99 »

Aquila Hawk wrote: Anyway, tareq, you have it right. We all came here for our own individual reasons, but came here with a single mission in mind. There are only so many places where such a broad base of nationalities and ethnicities have come together in a common peaceful goal to advance all of humanity. What we may find in that aerogel may even begin to show how petty the differences we tend to cling to are and how our tendencies to blindly judge others does nothing but divide a single common race. The six billion strong human race. None of us should forget that we are for all in tense and purposes one people spread across the face of a world. Here, we show the world that. 277 of us are communicating togther from across this world in a unified goal.

All I can say to everyone is take part in this project with ethusiasm and with your reasons in mind. Do so without questioning other's idiologies, and do so in cooperation with every member. With this, let us show the rest of humanity that we can all come together and put aside our diffences for the good of everyone.
I agree, Aquila. we're all here, no matter what our beliefs, to find stardust in aerogel. For me, I have always had a fascination for science, and the more I discover about the world around me, the more my beliefs are actually confirmed.

Good luck to all, and let's all enjoy our small part in advancing man's knowledge of the universe around us. :)
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

Gen. 1:3

Siegfried
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Post by Siegfried »

Well, I just got back from two days of working at TLD, and haven't read most of these posts (there are way too many for me right now...), I see that this discussion has included religious/scientific debates.
This is one of my major problems. I'm myself a Christian, yet beleive in the Big Bang (the Big Hiss, as I think it would more accurately be called) as well as evoloution. I'm glad I'm not the only one who runs into this conflict, not that I'd wish this conflict on my worst enemy.
And God said: E = +mv^2 - Ze^2/r ...and there *WAS* light!

WANTED:
Dead or Alive
^-^
( ^ )
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billykkutter
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The conflict..........

Post by billykkutter »

You are not alone......however, you are....

kutter
I have lots of dust for all to examine.....the wind
blows here alot....

kutter

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