"I think I've found a track, what do you think?" A

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Post by Solkos »

Nah, you are just barely comming up on the surface. Its just a chunk. I would still mark it though. You can see in the lower portion that the surface is just barely comming into focus though

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Post by Blarrrg »

I'm almost positive that that's just bad focus.

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i think you're right

Post by replicant »

surface just coming into focus..

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Post by cthiker »

icebike -

Thank you for your comments. I accept that your viewpoint differs from mine. Good luck with your "dusting" (and same as well to Damien and WeBeGood)!

the moon
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Post by the moon »

All these "below surface dots" everyone is seeing (I get them about 1 in 25 real movies), probably aren't tracks since there are so many and they all look the same, and often there will be mulitpules in the same movie. All that makes it likely they're caused by something else.

However however however! I haven't seen anything posted by anyone that looks more like a track then these. These are probably very close to what a very small track will look like, except they won't go out of focus at the lowest levels of focus like most of the reported dots do (unless the overall movie isn't focused low enough). But since there has been zero official comment on even the most clicked on movies, what choice do we have but to keep clicking on these dots?

We aren't going to see the big obvious tracks like in the examples from other sources. My guess is these particules are all smaller then those or we would have already seen some posted.

So keep clicking on the "below surface dots". Right now its the only thing we have to go on.

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Post by Kitten »

Yeah I don't see anything in this shot either. I find the best way to find tracks is to realize that a lot of the time they seem to "pop" out of no where...

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Re: Holy crap! 3-in-1!!

Post by desdema »

DustBuster wrote:
But the faint ring narrowing down to a spot is exactly what we see with the vast majority of activity at the surface and so I've been assuming stuff with rings is a type of debris that we aren't looking for.
again... were talking about items below the surface not at surface level.
Our difference of opinion here is on what a track looks like. You think the rings narrowing down to a point below the surface indicate a track. I don't. I just went and looked through the tutorial again and while most of the movies are too low quality to see rings, #11 does show rings narrowing down on the surface debris while the track that comes up does not have a ring, only a slight haze in the levels above it. To me, this indicates something. If it doesn't indicate anything to you that is totally fine and I'm not saying it makes you wrong or me right.

I absolutely acknowledge that I could be wrong. All I was trying to do with my previous post was explain why I wasn't interpreting the images the same way you are. I'm also hoping that by posting details for my opposing view an official source will be compelled to give us some guidance on the issue.

Thanks for the link to information on the mods/official staff on these boards. I know you haven't claimed to be officially tied to the project, I only brought up the question of whether you were because someone upthread had commented that they were going to change the way they were judging tracks based solely on a comment you made, because you were a mod.

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seems no one agree with me on this one

Post by renboeverywhere »

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_id=37414

it's at almost the top ,in the middle-top,when focus goes down to the last picture it begins to show some feature of a track I think,it's getting into focus and it has a "ring" .It's very link some of the tracks in the tutorial,etc.
When nobody becomes everybody, nothing will become everything.

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Post by seahunter »

I would have selected bad focus

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Post by dd »

Hi all,

I've looked at the movie again. The more I look at it the more I'm convinced it's a little Spiff from outer space ;-)

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing here's the "particle":


The track is also visible. If you focus a little higher you can see that the track gets sharper farther from the particle, indicating a slightly slanted trajectory. The arrow below shows a small point that is getting sharper:


This example in the tutorial has the same characteristics on a larger scale:

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... _number=10

Note the black specs along the trajectory, which is actually what is indicated with the arrow on the previous image.

This trajectory appears to be consistent with a particle entering the aerogel from the surface. However, even if it is similar to the example shown in the tutorial, as icebike noted, this particle has a much less dramatic trajectory. It could be because this is the end of the track where the particle is slower or simply because the particle is smaller. BTW the size of the particle also appears to be consistent with what is expected (about 2um).

It would be very interesting to have a look at the movie located just left of this one. I suspect we may find a larger track which would reach the surface. Indeed, the slant of the trajectory is about 3-4 focusing steps per 50 microns. The surface is 25 focusing steps above, hence the track should continue for about 300-400um (I assume a linear trajectory). So if it's a track it's really the end of it. I know this is guessing from a very small image region but if it's correct it shows that the trajectory should be visible across a large part of the neighbour picture. Also, should this trajectory have been vertical we would certainly have seen it across the whole focusing range (300um > 120um).

Now whether this comes from space is another question ;-) I have to admit that I don't know much about the details of the mission and the physics of it all. But as far as I can see everything points towards a little Spiff... At least for the over-motivated non-specialist :-)

What do you think?
Last edited by dd on Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DustBuster »

Hi desdema.

I agree we are entitled to our own opinions. I'm basing my opinion starting with page 1 of the tutorial- take note of the 'carrot-shaped' impression of what a track should resemble and discussions we've had here since May about them... and the text: "It may turn out that the tracks of real interstellar dust will look quite different. They may be deeper or shallower, wider or narrower. We will see once we have the first few examples of real interstellar dust!"

I have also tried to make it clear, repeatedly, that I have not stated what a track is, only what it is we are looking for and that the items upthread match that criteria- even though they don't look like the simulated MONSTERS that are in the tutuorial, if fact they look 'quite different', but exactly what we're told to look for in the text of the tutorial.
As a matter of fact, a lot of the repeat questions in these forums were adressed in the text of the tutorial- it makes me wonder how many people just looked at the pretty movie but didn't read the text?
No dessert for you- ONE MONTH!

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Re: seems no one agree with me on this one

Post by dbririe »

renboeverywhere wrote:http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... e_id=37414

it's at almost the top ,in the middle-top,when focus goes down to the last picture it begins to show some feature of a track I think,it's getting into focus and it has a "ring" .It's very link some of the tracks in the tutorial,etc.
The last frame is just getting into focus on the surface...you can't see below, therefore "bad focus"

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Post by renboeverywhere »

There is an important rule here given:track and bad focus at the same time:track!
When nobody becomes everybody, nothing will become everything.

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Post by KarMann »

Yes, but I don't really see any sign that that would be a track, rather than just a surface feature of some sort. Can't know at all until we get a view with better focus range.
Let it never be said that your **** retentive attention to detail never yielded positive results. - Loki, Dogma

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Post by buddhabuddha »

I would have selected bad focus also...

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