I answered a calibration movie right but was scored wrong

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jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Mid-air track!

Post by jsmaje »

3861689V1
Though I was marked correctly for this CM, I reckon in theory it should have been incorrect, since it has been pasted way above the actual surface (which is reasonably level, but in fact never comes into full focus even by the lowest bar).

Since we are expected to discriminate between what's above, on or below the surface, surely the team should take similar care.
jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje »

I've already mentioned 6112223V1 above, but no official response yet.
What also about this 100µ CM: 9387087V1? I was convinced there was one of those tiny fading pasted tracks at 163/93, but was docked a point yet again by clicking on it.

What do others think of these two movies? Could they have pasted some tiny tracks into the lo-res movies to confuse us, yet refuse to acknowlege when we spot them, or is phase-two making me hypersensitive/paranoid?

Whatever, my experience so far suggests that you can't fail (score-wise) by clicking 'No track' on any 100µ movie.
So what exactly is the point of them? Since we're now looking at the same areas of gel at greater magnification, surely there's no chance of a track being found in the lo-res movies that could be missed in the hi-res.
fjgiie
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Location: Hampton, SC, US

Bad Miss

Post by fjgiie »

Had a miss at 5:42 pm PDT and these were my last two to click on.
30 August

Eleven movies back clicked on 3290104V1 at 276, 184
About seven movies back clicked on 1858862V1 at 158, 74
Last movie to judge was 261563V1

I just saw nothing to miss.

Thanks
midloman
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am

Post by midloman »

I had a miss on this obvious 'bubble' track CM. This happened at normal resolution, but was the first track I clicked on after trying out IE's "zoom" feature.

The URL:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/stardustathome. ... da-035.jpg

The 'Back' button shows the movie number:

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... eck_movie=7356028V1&no_record=0&key=552a19d5&code=&coords=?-2,-2

Forward button shows the click at 442,100

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... s=?442,100

I have no clue whatever why the "next_movie" in the first set does not match the "ondeck_movie" of the second set.

I will shut down and restart IE to see if the problem re-occurs
McAngus
Posts: 230
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Location: Italy (Palermo)

Post by McAngus »

Movie Id 9958181V1

The first time I clicked on the track and I got one point.

The second time I clicked on the track and I got an error.
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... s=?300,340
Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:13 am

The third time I clicked on No Track and I got an error.
http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1
Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:19 am

McAngus
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Nikita
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Post by Nikita »

DiamondGirl wrote:
Nikita wrote:I haven't seen this number 1727143V1 come up as a goof. I clicked on the dot on the bottom left and was marked wrong. I hope it's not your goof...well, I do hope it's your and not mine!
Just a head's up, Nikita - I wasn't able to load this one from the shortcut you had in there, but I was able to paste the number into one of the other ones, and I would agree totally - definite track there in mid to bottom left area. Most likely another bad one. I'll for sure add it to my list. :)
Hey There Diamond Girl!
Yea, I knew it wouldn't come up, I just wanted to show them it was a CM. When I got dinged, I wrote the message and told everyone in my house that I got scored wrong and that they should fix it soon. Then a wise duster by the name of fjgiie clued me into the fact that there was another, true track there. My response was something along the lines of, "Huh...look at that...well, guess I can just kiss my perfect scores goodby!" :oops: So look at that one carefully, it's not what you think. Oh, and I let the issue quietly drop at home, no one has asked about it - yet.
From dust we come
Nikita
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Location: Indiana, USA

Re: 7078049V1

Post by Nikita »

bmendez wrote:
rlcwik wrote:2:15 PM PDT 8/24/07

Is this a delayed scoring problem or is this actually a Positive CM? As far as I can tell, this is the one that dinged me and I see nothing. I use two windows open to search and load. In the other window there was a Positive CM that had just scored correctly and looking further back in this window.. I found no likely candidates.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1
Nope, there's a track there. It's just really subtle. If it makes you feel better, nobody has yet correctly found it. I could only find it when I knew the exact coordinates to look for.

-Bryan
Hey Bryan,
After reviewing this one again, pass this on to the stardust team for me:
:twisted:(Click on the face)
From dust we come
fjgiie
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Location: Hampton, SC, US

Post by fjgiie »

Hi Nikita and Bryan,

1. 7078049V1 The only dot on this CM is at top right and stays around only a few frames, maybe five. It is very, very weak, not a track.

2. Clicked no track on 9928929V1 and recorded a miss. After this movie was clicked the miss showed up or updated.

Back a couple of movies I see that I clicked on 3627843V1 Clicked at 252, 135 end of next url with no miss.

Went back eleven movies and found 221515V1 which I did miss. Next movie url ended in -1, -1.

Update in misses took eleven movies to be seen. I know this because there were two correct movies after the real miss and the update came after the second correct CM. (unless one of those last two were really a miss) 5:52 am PDT 31 Aug.
bmendez
Stardust@home Team
Stardust@home Team
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Contact:

Post by bmendez »

Hi All,

Just a quick update.

I've been busy getting ready for a conference in Chicago next week where I will be talking about, among other things, citizen science projects like Stardust@home. So I haven't had time to investigate these various reports from the past couple of days (the database is huge and complex and takes quite some time to sort through for each report).

We now have one of our undergraduate students back in action and I believe that she has been going through my list of bad CMs and removing them from the system. If anyone encounters those CMs from my earlier list, please let me know.

Other members of the team are back from their various holidays as well and are working on some of the less visible issues with the system, but since I'll be away next week I probably won't be able to follow up on bad CM reports for about a week.

The one things that has been coming up again and again is that there is most definitely a delay in the system that displays your scores. You may miss a CM, but the system does not show that miss until a few movies later, or if happens right before logging out not until after you log back in. This bug seems to happen rarely, but it certainly has me chasing shadows. If you see your score go down but feel confident that you correctly answered the previous movie, please check
(a) that it was a CM after all (see this post for how to do that), because if it wasn't then there has definitely been a delay; and
(b) that it wasn't a CM a few movies back that you hadn't noticed.

A couple other notes about the new CMs:

(1) Yes, they are difficult. Hopefully you have noticed that the top candidate tracks are also really subtle. We've used some of them as the calibration tracks in the new CMs. We've shrunk some down to near invisibility so as to measure the true minimum detection threshold (a size where no more than say 20% of dusters can find the calibration track). That means for some of them, most of you will miss them.

(2) No, not all low resolution movies are blank CMs. Many are, but there are some low resolution movies that are from tiles that were not searched in Phase 1. So they are actually new data.

(3) Recall that the purpose of the CMs is not to test or teach you what to look for, but rather to calibrate your individual responses. Each of you has a different approach to searching, and so what is a feature of interest to one person may not be to another. The CMs allow us to calibrate everyone to the same level when we examine your responses. You shouldn't be searching wondering what our intentions were for a given movie (afterall, the CMs are generated by an automated program, so most of the time there was no intention). Instead you should simply evaluate each movie you see based on what you actually see there (not on what you think we might want you to see there).

Thank you everyone for your amazing efforts. I'm going to have tons of great things to say about our wonderful volunteers at the conference next week.
-Bryan
"I am made from the dust of the stars, and the oceans flow in my veins"
- RUSH
cretinbob
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Hooray...I think

Post by cretinbob »

This time I saw a track and it said I didn't. Got one earlier that was weak, so I wasn't going to ask about it. This one on the other hand seems like a good track

0826Z
8.2.2007

2486505V1

268,330

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1
cretinbob
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Post by cretinbob »

actually, that may have been something on the lens, or someother artifact. I see it here too.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1

It's not on my monitor however.So far I've only seen it in these two (and maybe that other)
fjgiie
DustMod
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Location: Hampton, SC, US

May be clear CM's

Post by fjgiie »

Say hello to Moe at 268, 330, spots on the microscope lens.
elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Post by elainekeefe »

I don't know if this is a bad CM or if I need new glasses. Does anyone else see a track here? (I checked the two previous movies, nothing there.) I see a faint line on the "fish's" nose, to the right of that a very faint dot, and a very briefly appearing dot middle left, but none of them are clickable, in my opinion. (around 7:26 p.m. EST)

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... rds=?-1,-1
fjgiie
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Location: Hampton, SC, US

The One Before

Post by fjgiie »

The movie before this one - 5133556V1 (left of center, and down a little)
elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: The One Before

Post by elainekeefe »

fjgiie wrote:The movie before this one - 5133556V1 (left of center, and down a little)
Thank you. I see it now. New glasses, I guess.
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