Whine Time

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DanZ
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Re: Whine Time

Post by DanZ » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:23 pm

Thanks for the advice on Skill Score everyone, I will look into the possibilities!

Dan

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:49 pm

Dan,

I have always had the opinion that everyone has the right to disagree with something; however, when he does he takes on the responsibility to offer a suggestion for improvement. It is within this guideline that this epistle is intended.

Anytime someone is faced with a situation he does not like or there is no reward then that person has the desire to separate himself from that situation. Conversly, a situation full of reward and elevated self esteem makes that person want to stay in that position. A very wise employer of mine, during a training program, said that perhaps the best wages and employer can offer are Mental Wages. It costs the company nothing and it rewards the employee to do more because that employee feels good about his position.

Your present method of scoring these efforts of the Dusters is loaded with negative feedback.
!. Your scoring lists Power Movies Missed - nothing about Power Movies Correct.
2. By having a skill score based on averages you provide negative feedback everytime a person correctly identifies a low value target.
3. By having a large number of movies with the targets placed in the wrong location and resulting in a miss score again puts a negative feedback to the person who correctly identified a target.
4. Now for some reason new people are finding it impossible to complete the testing program even though they are correctly identifing the targets.

Ok, I have now complained so it is on my back to offer some suggestions to hopefully help.
1. Drop the Power Movies Missed figure and instead provide a running total of Power Movies Correct.
2. Drop your skill scoring of averages and substitute a simple relationship of percentage of correct results compared to total of power movies viewed. Total of correct power movies divided by total of power movies viewed. You would now have Power Rank which reflects the total movies viewed with the scores of the movies and the Skill Score relating to success with the power movies viewed.
3. Spend the time to go through each Power Movie and adjust all the errors found.
4. I don't know what is going on with the testing for new people but it needs to be addressed.

Thank you for allowing me this platform and I offer myself to any endeavor which I may contribute to help.

George

greuti
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Re: Whine Time

Post by greuti » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:37 am

DanZ wrote:Thanks for the advice on Skill Score everyone, I will look into the possibilities!
In the meantime I will go as high as possible by skipping the obviously lower ones (most of them are old friends anyway).

fjgiie
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Re: Whine Time

Post by fjgiie » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:49 am

When I click Bad Focus on a bad focus power movie the total of power movies viewed goes up by one. This counts against you in the Skill Score.

So, the Bad Focus button has a lower value to dusters. We cannot continue to use the Bad Focus button as a bail out as we did in phases I, II & III.      :)     Remember when jsmaje tested the bad focus button and there were no effects for clicking bad focus on a calibration movie?

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:19 pm

Please define "bail out".

jsmaje
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Re: Whine Time

Post by jsmaje » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:07 pm

What excellent feedback George (gebils) - I agree with every word and suggested solutions.

I've long banged on about the psychological aspect of duster engagement in previous phases and how important it is to a successful world-wide distributive project, and have provided relevant participation data such as the Top 100 log-log plots for example.

Phase 4 seemed to start out promisingly. The movies are certainly way better (except for a handful with absurdly obvious rectangular pastings - how did they ever get in?), and I actually welcome the extreme mix of 'power' difficulties.
Yet the lessons from all three previous phases regarding mis-calibrated CM/Power movies and a potentially discouraging 'scoring' system have clearly not been learned (they say they've listened; who's listened, and to whom?)

One result is that I've regretably begun adopting greuti's strategy of 'back-buttoning' easy tracks for fear of reducing my skill level, albeit at the expense of my power score!
Of course no two duster's personal response to their rankings will be the same; some dust for the sake of it regardless, others to chalk up as many movies and power scoring as possible (or, as I'm well aware, to contribute with their valuable time as much as possible given personal circumstance), and others who gain more satisifaction from their percieved skill than pure volume of activity. None should be made to feel devalued as a result.

Fjgiie: are you referring to my investigation of the browser 'Back' button rather than the VM 'Bad focus' button? I've not noticed any issue regarding the latter, though have noticed that with the browser 'Back' button I'm occasionally given a new movie instead of being shown the previous movie as expected, without option to click 'go to a new movie'. I suspect it could be when I've done a greuti!

Re: 2019555V1 Dan. Sorry to not have made it clear. No, I didn't click anywhere on that particular movie, having missed it altogether! But on reviewing it in the 'missed' viewer I considered it to be outside your 25 micron-square red box coordinates and, given the others I mentioned where I'd clicked well within the old 60 micron circular diameter yet had been marked down because I was outside the red box rectangle, it seems I would have missed it anyway.
So I repeat my question: what are the current pixel tolerance limits for an acceptable click?

John
Last edited by jsmaje on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

fjgiie
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Re: Whine Time

Post by fjgiie » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:41 pm

gebils wrote:Please define "bail out".
Hi gebils,

Bailing out is almost exactly the same as punting.

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:49 pm

Let me put it another way. By "bail out" do you mean exiting a movie in such a way that it does not lower your score in stead of selecting a target or the no track button?

fjgiie
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Re: Whine Time

Post by fjgiie » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:54 pm

Yes, except that is the short way.

Bail out as used in golf. The green is small with water in front and right side. It's 225 yards, so do I want to bail out and hit the ball to a safer area short of the green or lay up?

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:00 pm

Go ahead and call it what you will I think we all now understand what has been going on for some time now. Your dance around the answer is a classic response from someone doing something that may be considered by others as cheating.

George

fjgiie
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Re: Whine Time

Post by fjgiie » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:17 pm

gebils wrote:Go ahead and call it what you will I think we all now understand what has been going on for some time now. Your dance around the answer is a classic response from someone doing something that may be considered by others as cheating.

George
Hi George,
When I wrote this above, here is what had happened.

I had come upon a movie that was out of focus. I really thought that "Bad Focus" was the correct response so I clicked on "Bad Focus". It turned out that the number of Power Movies that I had viewed increased by one. So I came here to warn others that if a Power Movie was clicked Bad Focus then your Skill Score will go down. That's all.

Thanks,

              fjgiie

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:21 pm

I would advise that when you find yourself in a hole - quit digging. You already showed your colors. But then people like you never are in tune to advice - you are firmly convinced that doing anything and everything to get ahead is proper and to heck with everyone else.

greuti
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Whine Time

Post by greuti » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:53 am

jsmaje wrote: One result is that I've regretably begun adopting greuti's strategy of 'back-buttoning' easy tracks for fear of reducing my skill level, albeit at the expense of my power score!

John
Please do not call it a greuti! I'm not the originator and I never would be proud of doing such "dodgy/fishy" things. :oops:

Instead of using the back button, simply use the menu item "Virtual Microscope" above and you will get a new movie.

Btw, as said before, to find better the high valued tracks (and the small real ones of course) it is highly recommended to do it (dusting) with a zoomed browser window!

Peter

SmithES
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Re: Whine Time

Post by SmithES » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:02 am

Re: "Cheating," to avoid penalties from low-value Tracks, and getting penalized for clicking on "Bad Focus?" I've clicked on what I really felt were Bad Focus, and couldn't believe the penalty! I'm appalled at what has happened to Phase Four. I know I had reached Skill 11.77 and then none of my batches had high-value Tracks, and I quickly dropped to 11.48. This was because I only received low-value Tracks. (I'm sure that I have not recently had any high-value Tracks since none have been listed as having been missed) So, how can I increase my skill when my movies contain only low-value Tracks? I had not dusted for four days, so yesterday I decided I'd try it again. The very first movie that came up had a Track that I recognized, and I knew I would receive a negative score if I clicked on it. I didn't want my score to drop again, so, I just logged out. I've dusted since August 2006, and I just don't understand what is happening to our Stardust@Home program. What was the guy who thought up the penalty system anyway: "We'll punish dusters for finding Tracks?" That's just not fair! It seems to me that the fairest system would be one that is based on the proportion of misses to the number of PMs viewed. Earning certificates, meeting and making so many new friends, learning about Stardust, and the journey she took through our solar system, so these samples could be sent to our computers----has been nothing short of joyous to me. Then Phase Four began---with its penalties, and the forums have begun to degenerate into "nasty," and I can't take that. I just had my eighty-second birthday in June. I can't cope with the disappointment. So, I will sit on the sidelines until it all falls out. Maybe the administration can fix it. I hope so. Getting back to dusting would thrill this old lady's heart! Evelyn ERSTRS

gebils
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Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:25 pm

A very long time ago I took an oath that I would not lie, cheat or steal; nor would I tolerate those who do. I have lived a long and successful life embracing these principles.

There are those in this group who do not share this ideal. For that I regret and for those not involved I apologize and for everyone I say good bye.

George

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