Whine Time

Discuss your experiences with and ideas about Stardust@home here.

Moderators: Stardust@home Team, DustMods

gebils
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:35 am

Phil,

The Y axis is listed at -24. The target is located just above your monitor. Another
uncorrected movie.

George

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Whine Time

Post by jsmaje » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:34 pm

Another two escapees from the so-called 'fixes', both 'Heidelbergers':

3232408V1 - officially 21/9, yet Y-coordinate more like 19 (worth 16 'points').
2019555V1 - officially 200/365, yet X-coordinate more like 190; very subtle (worth 53 'points'), so particularly annoying if you spotted it but were slapped down.

As a result, I've now become confused as to what is considered the 'acceptable' radius within which one can click within the team's version of the coordinates, since clicking on 'Y=19' & 'X=190' respectively would have been well within the previous radial tolerance of 30 microns.

It now seems that one must click within the much narrower 25 x 25 micron box (max radius 12.5) and far-too-frequently misplaced red bars shown on the subsequent 'Missed Event' feedback movie.
I've mentioned this issue before, and suggested a better way of doing things, but was told by Dan that they didn't think it necessary.

On the positive side, I've noticed that most 'Power' coordinates are much more sensible, even if only because the original wildly mis-calibrated large HATs have thankfully been withdrawn to await correction.

Lastly, has anyone else noticed that the 'Real Movies Viewed' total rises with every single movie, regardless of whether it was in fact a 'Power Movie'?

John

gebils
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:54 am

This afternoon I will be playing in a local softball game. One of the rules will be for every home run hit that teams total score will be reduced. Also each time a player catches a fly ball that team's score will be reduced by one. Also first base will be located 50 feet farther down the line toward right field.

George

elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Whine Time

Post by elainekeefe » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:34 pm

We have a comedian aboard! You cracked me up, George. Thanks for my laugh for the day!

laserphil
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:28 pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Whine Time

Post by laserphil » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:14 am

An interesting question - where to click?

Are there two tracks in this movie 4021787V1?

This structure has appeared in 5 power movies from today's dusting. Different orientations but the same two track like spots. I've clicked on three different locations - first spot(looking from tail towards head -miss), second spot (looking from tail to head - hit ), second spot again - miss, checked the missed movies and found the co-ordinates indicated the mid point between the dots, next mid-point - hit, then mid point again - miss - checked missed movies and the correct co-ordinates are not even on the line! I think I will have to avoid this power movie type. Its just not worth the angst to get/not get the 15 points.

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... 8&theY=251

gebils
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:35 pm

Nine hours of dusting today and constantly set back in score with low point targets, impossible finds and miss plotted tracks. This last one is the straw that broke the camel's back. How much longer do you people expect us to stay with this effort until you get things going fair for everyone. Some have adopted the technique of skipping movies they know are faulty and others have decided to try to be honest about it; however, your efforts to correct the errors and level the playing field have fallen short of responsible. We are charged with the effort to find stardust targets and a lot of us rely on the challenge of your Power Movies and scoring to combat the hours of boredom scanning movies with no tracks. Your scoring at best has little more than negative feedback but now that it is loaded with faulty movies and no light at the end of the tunnel to correct the problem it destroys the impulse for some to continue. This last movie tonight for me is the straw. This is not my project so I have no control over its operation but as you may sense my staying power is growing slim. If I have any influence I would suggest you shut down this site until you have corrected all of the Power Movies and change the scoring so that it does not lower a person's score for correctly spotting a track. If the present scoring is of importance to the data you are collecting then I would suggest that you collect that offline and not post it to the majority of us who don't understand it and don't feel comfortable with it.

George

http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ ... 1&theY=241

SmithES
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:25 am

Re: Whine Time

Post by SmithES » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:13 am

I have experienced gebils' frustration the last several days. Early yesterday (7/31/2011) I managed to inch up to Skill points 11.77. As someone suggested in a Post earlier, I should have quit while I was ahead. But, I was on a roll, so kept going. Then began the low valued Tracks. My Skill points dropped steadily to 11.60. Tried again later. Got low valued Tracks again and Skill points ended up 11.59 when I logged out. Surprise! When I logged in this morning, the number was listed as 11.56. And, I was charged with four misses. I kept records, and mine showed only two misses. Don't know where the other two came from. So, I began at number 11.56 this morning, hoping for some high value Tracks to get me out of the pits. An immediate "23" brought me up to 11.59. Then, came the low value ones---two "9's" and a "4." Skill plunged to 11.55. Missed a "5" point one, and it dropped further to 11.52. BUT, even if I had clicked on it, I'm guessing my score would have dropped the same amount of points anyway! (At least missing the "4" point one dropped it .03 points, so am assuming it made no difference if I missed the "5" point one or not---score would have dropped the same amount.) My closing number had dropped to 11.48. I have really enjoyed Phase Four----because early on my batches contained many 30, 50, 60, and 70 valued Tracks. It was fun to find them and see my Skill points advance. I'm an old Lab Tech, having worked for both West Virginia University and The Ohio State University. At both of those labs, ASTM samples arrived at my desk randomly, unmarked. In all of the years I worked as a Lab Tech, I never missed analyzing an ASTM sample correctly---aced them every time. My skill at analyzing coal, water, and chemical samples was at the top of the list. Therefore, I cannot imagine---cannot imagine---my boss at either University coming to me and saying, "We keep lowering your Skill score because you keep getting all the ASTM samples right. . . ." Ludicrous! . . . .A real bummer. Evelyn ERSTRS

fjgiie
DustMod
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 8:47 am
Location: Hampton, SC, US

Re: Whine Time

Post by fjgiie » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:40 am

The calibration track is the dot just below and to the left of where you clicked. How do you know that Fred? I had that movie or one with the same two track features maybe over to the right side of the view a little. The decision of where to click on that movie was very difficult but I shut my eyes & clicked on the dot and was rewarded with lots of points.

The dot in movie 7515701V1 is located correctly with the red indicators     311, 241, but them others I posted about in Stardust@home Problems and Support are bad. :shock:

ps: everyone, check your pm's every month (private messages)

DanZ
Site Admin
Posts: 776
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Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Re: Whine Time

Post by DanZ » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:21 pm

Okay, admittedly the Skill Score does have its flaws, but the flaws are the same for everyone, so those with a high Skill Score still represent "high skill." Nevertheless, should we just dump it altogether and go only with Power Score? It's a question we're asking ourselves and I'll let you know what happens. Might put out a duster poll too, so please stay tuned.

Dan

DanZ
Site Admin
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Contact:

Re: Whine Time

Post by DanZ » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:31 pm

jsmaje wrote:2019555V1 - officially 200/365, yet X-coordinate more like 190; very subtle (worth 53 'points'), so particularly annoying if you spotted it but were slapped down.
Hi John,

Just to confirm, you definitely clicked X at 190 on this one, and you definitely get it wrong - correct?

Dan

SmithES
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:25 am

Re: Whine Time

Post by SmithES » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:22 am

DanZ,

Appreciated your response to the Skill scoring problem. But, the system is NOT "fair to everyone," because Dusters don't get the same-valued Tracks in their movies. When I began Phase Four, the first movies I received were loaded with Tracks valued above 30 points. I found 50s, 60s, and was overjoyed to find a "71," and sent it off to fjgiie, with a "hey, look what I did!" Since then, (you can check it out) I've seen few, if any, movies worth more than 30 points. Most, by far, have most been the much lower valued ones. With movies valued so low, there is no way I can better my Skill score. It will continue to go down--and that is what has happened. Unless you send me a batch with high-scoring Tracks in it, I'm jinxed by the system. So, in reality, we Dusters are "victims" of the movies we receive! IF you can figure out a way to send the same number of high-valued and low-valued Tracks to each Duster--THEN--it will be fair to everyone! Not until. Evelyn--ERSTRS

greuti
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Whine Time

Post by greuti » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:06 am

DanZ wrote:Okay, admittedly the Skill Score does have its flaws, but the flaws are the same for everyone, so those with a high Skill Score still represent "high skill." Nevertheless, should we just dump it altogether and go only with Power Score? It's a question we're asking ourselves and I'll let you know what happens. Might put out a duster poll too, so please stay tuned.

Dan
I guess it would be better to go only with the Power Score (with a restart please). So you would be able to click on every found Power Movie without the fear to lose Skill points or even to lose a real track by skipping.
In addition to the hours of dusting, it would be not bad if there would be still a possibility to include a certain Skill value representing in the Power Score, maybe by adjusting the rating/value of the Power Movies and by loseing certain amount of points if you've missed one.

gebils
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Whine Time

Post by gebils » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:22 am

What about Total Correct Power Movies divided by Total Viewed Power Movies for a "skill score"?

greuti
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:11 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Whine Time

Post by greuti » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:01 am

...multiplied by 100.

nitram819
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:38 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Whine Time

Post by nitram819 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:55 am

Here's an idea that I just had, not sure wether or not it is possible but... how about we only make the harder power movies count for the skill score (lets say those over 30 or 40) and completely disregard the lower score ones for skill?

The low score power movies dont really require any 'skill' for dusters to find them anyway.

Martin

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