Problem with Movie 206719V1?

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KevinACourtney
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:57 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Problem with Movie 206719V1?

Post by KevinACourtney » Fri May 09, 2008 10:11 am

Hi!...I've found that 206719V1 shows what looks to be a particle track on the left side of the movie, a little more than half way down. It's kind of faint and small...but definately has depth. The problem is that when you click directly on it, you get a point added to Wrong Answer. I don't know if that's intentional...maybe if someone has a moment they could have a look-see. Thank You!

Star Gezzer
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Newport Oregon

CM

Post by Star Gezzer » Fri May 09, 2008 6:39 pm

Other than being an out of focus movie there appeares to be a positive CM at 48-192

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje » Sat May 10, 2008 2:38 pm

I agree: 206719V1 is definitely a CM (its URL says so).
Although that doesn't exclude it being a negative CM, surely there is a small pasted track at 48/192 as Star Gezzer says.

Kevin, if it is a positive and that's what you clicked on but were marked down, then there must be an error in the Stardust database coordinates.
It may be worth re-posting in the "There's a problem with this focus movie" topic above to get the team's attention more quickly.

Meanwhile, may I be first to welcome you to the forum - as the most prolific duster (1st in the Top 100 by a long way) it seems you are in fact a human being and not a computer program after all!
I'm sure your extensive experience could be of value to others and look forward to more contributions. Or are you too busy dusting?

John

elainekeefe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:38 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Post by elainekeefe » Sat May 10, 2008 3:43 pm

Hi all,

I recognize this movie...it's the same one I've gotten wrong twice now. The first time I clicked "no track" and the second time I clicked on that spot on the left (48/192). The third time I decided I did not want to chance getting it wrong yet again and just clicked out of the VM altogether. I can only surmise that the correct spot to click is 312/63, though it doesn't look much like a track to me (on the surface). Sorry, I was too chicken to find out for sure. :lol:

Elaine

Star Gezzer
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Newport Oregon

Program

Post by Star Gezzer » Sun May 11, 2008 10:41 am

It will take more than asking a question to convince me John

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje » Tue May 13, 2008 3:17 pm

Star Gezzer wrote:It will take more than asking a question to convince me John
Me too, Star Gezzer, and I'm aware that you've previously denied being a computer program yourself.

Nevertheless, given that your response implies some sort of challenge, deny if you can that you, being 2nd to Kevin (both with similar stratospheric work rates) are in fact the author the original "CerealKiller" program, perhaps now resurrected under your own tag name "Star Gezzer", as well as the later "SkyNetV4", perhaps now humanised under the name "Kevin A Courtney" (who only appears at the beginning of phase 2, quickly rising to 1st in the top 100 by many depressing thousands, suspiciously after both programs had supposedly been withdrawn, and having had nothing at all to say until now)!

I hope I'm not constructing an unjustified conspiracy theory here, but as a matter of interest, can you for example let us know your, i.e. "Star Gezzer's", selectivity/specificity figures, which were fairly poor in the case of the acknowledged programs?

John (not casting aspersions, merely curious with friendly intentions and asking questions I suspect others might also have) :wink:

Star Gezzer
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Newport Oregon

Program

Post by Star Gezzer » Tue May 13, 2008 5:34 pm

I will restate again. I am not a program. I am a retired engineer. I am a 70 year old, single, insomniac and I do as I choose. I have chosen to name a spec of dust, which I will do. If this means me searching through thousands of movies I will do that. The score means nothing to me it is a product of my search. I also used to do graphic design alterations at the pixell level so I am used to seeing things that are very small up close. I do not see CM's or tracks. I see faults at maximum focus. It is kids play it just takes time which I have a lot of. By the way my stats are no secret.

Phase #2

Calibration Movies Answered Correctly 86929
Calibration Movies Answered Incorrectly 929
Your Overall Score: 86000
Total Real Movies Viewed: 347456
Your Rank: 2 out of 25811
Specificity: 99.95%
Sensitivity: 97.95%


Phase # 1


Your Overall Score: 124739
Total Movies Viewed: 432717
Your Rank: 5 out of 25811
Specificity: 99.99%
Sensitivity: 99.82%

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje » Wed May 14, 2008 12:21 pm

Sorry for being mischievous Star Gezzer :wink:, since I'm well aware of your previous statement. I had simply been wondering, however hard you may work under your own name (how many hours do you in fact put in?), whether you might not also be the author of the clever pattern-recognition programs CerealKiller/SkyNet4, perhaps now renamed 'Kevin A Courtney', and which I note you do not explicitly deny!

Where are you Kevin? Tell us about yourself and put a stop to my daft speculations :)

John

Star Gezzer
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Newport Oregon

Post by Star Gezzer » Wed May 14, 2008 4:22 pm

I do not keep track of my time but I probably put in 3-4 hours a day. You can figure it out if you want. I average 100 to 150 points an hour depending on the site speed. As far as my being the author of Ceral Killer you insult my intelligence. If I were capable of it I would not be stupid enough to waste my time writing a program to be high scorer on Star Dust.

James R Shannon

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by jsmaje » Thu May 15, 2008 2:33 pm

Star Gezzer wrote: As far as my being the author of Ceral Killer you insult my intelligence. If I were capable of it I would not be stupid enough to waste my time writing a program to be high scorer on Star Dust.
James R Shannon
Thanks for that James and apologies for any implied insult! Meanwhile, with your skills I think I might be forgiven for suspecting you "were capable of it"!

And to be fair, your post did say "It will take more than asking a question to convince me John", implying that you also wonder whether Kevin might not be all he seems. I've recently PMed him without response so far...

Star Gezzer
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: Newport Oregon

Kevin

Post by Star Gezzer » Thu May 15, 2008 3:17 pm

Ok I have avoided starting a war primarily because of past accusations against me. That said "OH WELL" You more than likely will not get a reply. I quit dusting for a while because of my oppisition to the optical recognition programs for these reasons. I do not believe a program should be on the red team or be able to take first discovers away from someone who actually personaly found it. I recently did a little test of Kevins capabilitys. I started out 12,000 points behind. While gaining back the points I was about twice as fast as he was. When I got closer he started increasing his hours of searching. When I passed him I was doing 8 hours a day which is about all my eyes will take. He has two speeds one is I suspect him the slower one is his program due to data overloading the program. He does not run the program all of the time but when I put the pressure on it was used more often. I know of one day the program ran for over 15 hours so I let him run on. LET THE WAR BEGIN

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Kevin

Post by jsmaje » Fri May 16, 2008 1:03 pm

Star Gezzer wrote:LET THE WAR BEGIN
Talk of "war" seems a bit extreme, but I'd certainly like Kevin to tell us about himself or, if Cereal Killer under a new name, to own up as 'he' eventually did in phase 1.

As you say, it seems unfair that a program should be on the Red Team, or is it if good enough? After all, the scientific project is about finding tracks, not about how they may be found or anyone's personal pride.

A partial measure of how effective programs are is their sensitivity & selectivity regarding CMs (clearly poor in the past) - hence my having asked you for your figures (which are very impressive), and which I suggest we also deserve knowing in the case of Kevin.

If Kevin himself is reluctant to open up, could the team let us know his figures and what they might know about him?

Not that any of this really matters scientifically; but the majority of us volunteers are inquisitive human beings, whose committment to the project can faulter when kept in the dark (and not just over this matter).

John

fjgiie
DustMod
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 8:47 am
Location: Hampton, SC, US

CK

Post by fjgiie » Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pm

CK turned out to be a nice guy so don't give him too much grief. :)

Star Gezzer is a nice guy too and fighting a machine like CK is tough. I only lasted six hours.

fjgiie

jsmaje
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: CK

Post by jsmaje » Wed May 21, 2008 1:19 pm

fjgiie wrote:CK turned out to be a nice guy so don't give him too much grief. Star Gezzer is a nice guy too and fighting a machine like CK is tough. I only lasted six hours
Edited 23 May:

Fjgiie, do I understand from the above that you might also suspect (perhaps know) that Kevin is CK's latest manifestation? And can it be mere coincidence that 'CK' is KevinACourtney's outer initials in reverse order? :roll:

Kevin - please speak up one way or the other for goodness sake :) !!!
Whilst any automated optical recognition program is unlikely to cause a problem for the project, surely we human dusters deserve to know about it, even if just to admire (and critically evaluate) the latest version and quite possibly learn from it.

Star Gezzer, it seems you're right - no response from Kevin to my two recent PMs so far.

John
To be honest, I only post this in the hope of keeping an apparently dying forum alive and finding something worth reading tomorrow...!

Nikita
DustMod
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Post by Nikita » Fri May 23, 2008 8:05 pm

Perhaps Kevin is busy dusting and not reading the forum?!?
Just a thought, I may be wrong.
From dust we come

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